The Uncommon Leader Podcast
Are you ready to break free from mediocrity and lead an extraordinary life? Join us on The Uncommon Leadership Podcast as we explore the power of intentionality in personal and professional growth. Our podcast features insightful interviews with inspiring leaders from all walks of life, sharing their stories of overcoming challenges and achieving greatness.
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- Think positively and cultivate a growth mindset
- Live a healthy and balanced lifestyle
- Build your faith and find inner strength
- Read more and expand your knowledge
- Stay strong in the face of adversity
- Work hard with purpose and passion
- Network effectively to build meaningful relationships
- Worry less and focus on what matters
- Love always and make a positive impact
In each episode, we'll dive into relevant leadership topics, share inspiring stories, and provide actionable steps you can take to elevate your life. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey, The Uncommon Leadership Podcast offers valuable insights and practical guidance to help you achieve your goals and live your best life.
The Uncommon Leader Podcast
Career Pivots and Pursuing Purpose with Jeff Henderson, Author of What To Do Next
In today's news, we're seeing a wave of job cuts spanning various industries, affecting nearly 200,000 U.S. employees so far in 2023 according to Forbes' layoff tracker. Chances are, you know someone who has been impacted by this trend. In such challenging times, one of the best gifts you can give them is encouragement.
Back in November 2022, I had the opportunity to read the book "What To Do Next" by Jeff Henderson. and I was fortunate enough to interview Jeff about his book and gain some of his insights on how to navigate challenging times. Given the relevance of his message to today's economic climate, I've decided to re-share that episode with you. Life is full of storms, and at any given moment, we may find ourselves in the midst of one, on the cusp of encountering one, or emerging from the aftermath of another. That's why I believe that this conversation will not only provide practical advice and encouragement, but also equip you with the tools to navigate the challenges of our current reality.
We delve into the profound role of preparedness when facing career transitions, drawing parallels from the founders of Home Depot, Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank. Unwrapping the emotional aspect of retirement, the responsibility of a decent farewell, and the importance of celebrating the new guard, Jeff's insights aim to fuel your quest for personal growth and professional advancement. He also highlights the significance of side hustles and experimental ventures.
As we steer towards the end of our discussion, we shed light on the journey towards identifying one's purpose. How can experiences and side hustles assist in determining the next step? Jeff takes us through his personal experiences of leaving Gwinnett Church, a place he helped found, and the process of honoring the new leadership. We conclude discussing the power of humility in leadership and the necessity of continuous learning and growth in the face of change. Tune in and arm yourself with wisdom and insights to navigate your present, regardless of its challenges.
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Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ? If you would be interested in having me discuss 1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click this link to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)
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Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast, and I'm your host, john Gallagher. In today's news, we're seeing a wave of job cuts spanning various industries, affecting nearly 200,000 US employees so far in 2023, according to Forbes' layoff tracker. Chances are you know someone who's been impacted by this trend. In such challenging times, one of the best gifts that you can give them is encouragement.
Speaker 1:Back in November 2022, i had the opportunity to read the book What to Do Next by Jeff Henderson, and I was fortunate enough to interview Jeff about his book and gain some of his insights on how to navigate challenging times and be prepared to do what's next. Now, given the relevance of his message to today's economic climate, i've decided to reshare that episode with you. Life is full of storms and at any given moment, we may find ourselves in the midst of one, in the cusp of encountering one or emerging from the aftermath of another. That's why I believe this conversation will not only provide practical advice and encouragement, but also equip you with the tools to navigate the challenges of your current reality. Let's get started.
Speaker 1:Good afternoon, jeff Henderson. Welcome to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. I'm so honored to have you as a guest on the show and I know that the listeners of the podcast are really going to enjoy this. I'd ask you right off the bat the first question that I always ask all the guests on the podcast. while we'll get a chance to talk about your book, i want to get the guest to learn a little bit more about you and your story. So I always ask everybody to talk about a story from their childhood or their early youth that still defines kind of who they are today.
Speaker 2:It's interesting you mentioned that, john, because last night I celebrated my 26th wedding anniversary. Wendy and I did, and so when I was 10 years old I've told her this about a million times In fact I wrote her an anniversary card and mentioned this story again. When I was 10 years old, i was walking home from my friend's house in North Georgia, beautiful summer night. I just was praying and Lord at 10, i was like here's the life I want to marry someday. And then I got married at 31. So 21 years later it took 21 years, but Wendy's eight years younger than me, so it took her. She had to grow up before I married her, or if I would have got arrested. But that story is like, hey, just be patient, have a vision for your life. Obviously I needed to be the man that she deserved, and then we celebrated 26 years yesterday. So in fact I you know the anniversary card wrote that story when I was 10 years old.
Speaker 1:Wow, jeff. I so appreciate you sharing that. That is really cool. I mean 26 years congratulations first to both of you And that is quite an accomplishment. And I think I'm at 28 years, chris and I are at 28,. at least I better say that right, or I'm going to get in big trouble.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 28 years, 28 years this year, good, good, good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you get past 20 to 26 and you start forgetting how many years that is, because that also impacts your age as well. But again, thanks for sharing that story And I want to really jump in. I mean, i could share stories as to how I get connected with you and we'll hear about it in terms of giving your cell phone number out and how gracious you've been to be a guest. But we're really here today to talk about you know, your book, what to do next, and you can see I've got a lot of pages marked in there and things like that. I could ask a hundred questions as to go forward, but I really loved doing that in book And I think as I read it it was started off.
Speaker 1:I had a friend who gifted the book What Do You For To Me And then, after reading that one, you and I connected. I saw the What Do You Do Next came out of someone read that as well, just to see what's in it and absorbing the story that you had. When I read it. I swear you wrote it to me much like that story 10 years ago And I needed to read it 10 years ago And I waited too many years to, in essence, really take some of the advice that you had in that book, but I think you wrote it just for me. But I know you didn't write it just for me, so tell me a little bit about how you got to write, why you wrote, what Do You Do Next and who you wrote it for.
Speaker 2:So I made a move, like you have made, john, and I think everybody's made, but I made mine two years ago and in my mid fifties and organization that I helped start as a pastor. I helped start two churches in my hometown and I made a change in the middle of a global pandemic. So everything was kind of screaming like don't do this, stay, stay. But we felt, for a lot of different reasons, that I write in the book that it was time to make this move. And when I made this move, i got a lot of questions from people and some of the questions were how did you eliminate risk? To which I said you don't eliminate risk, that's not, at least that's not the world I live in. But you can shrink risk. And they would say, okay, well, how did you shrink risk? And so I began to unpack. Well, here's how I figured out what to do next. And everybody said, hey, could you? could you write that down, could you send that to me? And the more I had people asking me how did you figure out what to do next? At some point I just figured out, with the help of some friends I think people need to hear this how to figure out what to do next.
Speaker 2:Because over the last 20-some odd years I've made four big career moves and I was actually leaving something that was working really, really well. So it wasn't like it was plummeting or that things weren't working. It was working well. But I'd gotten to a point where I was so interested in kind of what was next that it kind of ruined where I was. I don't like the word ruined, but I just felt like I'll regret this if I don't go after this. But this is not a plea for people to leave. This is not a plea for people to make reckless decisions, But this is also a plea for folks to remember that sometimes the greatest risk isn't leaving. Sometimes the greatest risk is staying. And how do you figure that out? And that's what I wrote the book.
Speaker 1:Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations on? If you would be interested in having me discuss one-on-one or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from underperforming to uncommon in their business or life, i would love to chat with you. Click the link in the show notes to set up a free call to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team. Now back to the show, jeff, while it leads right into the next question do you think about that as a career change again? Ten years ago I was sitting in a pizza shop having a question with a supervisor that I want to be able to do something like this. I said I don't think we're going to let you do something like that, and I let it fester for a long time.
Speaker 1:You talk about that word, whether it's making a bad decision or whatever that is, or I think it's a distraction. You certainly start to think about, hey, what could I be doing? And that dream stays in you for a while And you talk about this inside of the book really the life of an idea. It leads, really really good, into that story. What is that? I mean? it starts to burn inside of you a little bit and you have to make either one way or the other. What is that life of the idea for you and what that means? Sometimes the idea dies. Sometimes it grows.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so really the life cycle of the idea is there's the birth of the idea, and everyone has had the birth of the idea, but at some point the idea is going to die or there's going to be a challenge to the idea, and that's where a lot of us stop. But the third stage is where the idea gets resurrected in some form or fashion And then, if you keep being persistent, it will ascend in some different form or fashion. And if you look at startups, organizations, business or nonprofits, when someone had an idea, that's pretty much the journey they had. Hey, i had this idea. Oh, then it got really difficult, but I kept moving and it morphed and it changed and it came to this. And then now look at where I am. And so that journey of an idea has helped me over the course of time to realize that when I hit stage two, the death of the idea or the obstacle, that's not the conclusion, that's a chapter. Now, that's not to say that businesses don't close, nonprofits don't grow, don't close They could. But that in and of itself is a chapter and you can morph and move into something else, and the business world is full of stories of people that moved from stage two to stage three And I'm in Atlanta, home town of Home Depot.
Speaker 2:It's exactly what happened to Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank They get fired and then they eventually wound up launching Home Depot And so understanding what to do next. That's why I tell folks, if you really need to consistently be looking at this And now sometimes next happens to us right, the company gets downsized, we get let go all of that. So that's another thing that we can talk about. But that's why I'm a big believer in side hustles and experimenting on the side, and that's really the.
Speaker 2:My first book really led me to this next season because I experimented with an idea I had called the business breakfast, where I would travel around and I would go speak at churches on Sunday and do a business breakfast on Monday and I was testing it out And I remember I was in Elkhorn, nebraska They do for Elkhorn, which is part of what the book was about, and they so resonated with it And I remember a call, wendy and going if the folks in wonderful Elkhorn Nebraska are resonating with this, i think this may be our next season, but you have to experiment with that And that's why I think side hustles are really, really important, even if you're not necessarily looking for something continuing to grow, continuing to explore, continuing to leverage your strengths Because at some point it might morph into something that could be your next.
Speaker 1:Jeff, i love that And you just touched on something. Really, that was one of my almost not a trick question for you, but I told a friend of mine and a mastermind that I was going to ask it anyway who gifted me your first book And he loves to post on LinkedIn a picture of the books that he reads And he says what he's reading. He says I just don't know if I can post what to do next as the book that I'm reading because it's going to look like I want to leave the organization, but that's not really the intent behind what is in that book. So if he's worried about what's next, what advice can you give him that says it's really not just about leaving your career, but it's preparing. What can he be doing to prepare?
Speaker 2:So I've had organizations invite me in and they've actually said that okay, jeff, we're really excited that you're here, but don't let our staff leave, especially within the current great resignation. And what I tell them is hey, from the very beginning, this isn't about you leaving your job. I quote one of my best friends in the book, david Farmer, who says if you're the same person six months from now, you're falling behind. So this really is about bringing the next best version of you, and whenever we get too comfortable and we're not growing, there should be a warning light on the dashboard of our lives.
Speaker 2:I tell people hey, if you know someone, you may not be wanting to know what to do next, but how many of you and I've tried this out, it's 100% every time, john how many of you would raise your hand you know someone who's trying to figure out what to do next? Everybody knows someone, and I said that's why you should post about this book. So hey, i want to be encouragement to you. You can figure this out. It's not as mysterious. And I think the other helpful piece of advice is for people that are trying to figure this out is hey, you don't have to figure out the rest of your life. You just got to figure out what to do next, and so I think, with your friend, i would just say, hey, i would post it for hey, if you've got a friend that's trying to figure out what to do next, this might be helpful resource for her or for him because everybody needs encouragement, especially those that are looking at it maybe in the middle of a career transition.
Speaker 1:That's uh I'm smiling and I know I don't do this as a video podcast, because I think he really will get a Kick out of that but it's not just about career change. It's about who you're going to to be next as well, because you're exactly right if you are the same person Six months, nine months, even even 12 months from now as you are today, then you are absolutely going to fall behind. That's just that the expectations go up and we should always be on that continuous Development journey, and so I know you're a big fan of John.
Speaker 1:Maxwell. You talk about him in there. He talks about lifelong learning and all the big pieces that are there and where I'm a big fan of his as well. I, i want to. I want to keep staying, you know, within this book. I think it's fun a conversation, wise, you talk about helping people wait During this period and there's one tip in there. I don't want to give all them, because I want people to read the book and I want them to reach out to me, say I want a copy and I'll send it to them. I really will. But I was especially impacted by one of the tips you talked about was find your muse, and It really was. You know, find your who to start thinking about. Tell me a little bit more about that one And maybe even other ways people can prepare and wait for that change.
Speaker 2:So many people. John said I just don't know what to do. I don't know really what I want to do, and I understand that, and so my advice then is We talked a little bit about side hustles, but my advice at that point is find someone that inspires you and and then follow their path. So you mentioned John Maxwell. John Maxwell is someone that I want to follow his path. He was a pastor, but John can easily move into the business space with with no problem at all. They're like okay, yes, it's John Maxwell, he can move into the government space, he can move into the education space, he can move into the sporting space, and I thought that's, that's what I want to do. I want to move seamlessly between church and business.
Speaker 2:Michael Hyatt is another one. I had a chance to go do a communication training. I put this in the look with with Michael, because part of what I do is coach communicators on how to give their Make their presence, their next presentation, their best presentation, and I went up to Franklin, tennessee, and I came home and told Wendy I said I don't know really what I saw today, but whatever it is, i think that's what I want to do. I think I want to. And so Michael Hyatt became kind of amused to go Well, jeff, what do you want to do? I don't know, but I think I saw it and I think it's that, and And it's not exactly what Michael does and not exactly what John does, but it's enough for me to go. I want to move in that direction. And and so Who? if you're not clear about you know what to do next? It's okay, find someone that you can model their path. That doesn't mean that you're copying them, but that you, you might be inspired by what they're doing. They give you a vision to to go after it.
Speaker 2:And I remember shortly after we're just about six weeks after, and I'd made my transition I was speaking in a conference with John Maxel and he spoke first and and he said, hey, i never had a clear vision, i just kept moving forward. And I mean I just thought, oh, my goodness, that's. I hope they get something out of my talk. But that's why I'm here today to hear that, because if John Maxwell didn't have a clear vision I know a mere mortal like me doesn't have a clear vision. Well, i know. But John Maxwell, mean, he stole like 36 million books and he, he didn't invent leadership, but I feel like he invented the leadership category from a publishing standpoint. He never had a clear vision, he just kept moving forward. Okay, well, that's a muse to me, that's an inspiration to go, and on the days that are hard, on the days that don't things don't work out, i'm gonna keep moving forward, because that's what John does.
Speaker 1:He does a great job And I think he and both Michael Hyatt are great individuals, great leaders. To emulate what they do and really identify that and I've used a quote before. I said I don't want to be necessarily them, but I want to be like them inspirational, encouraging, motivating, high character, just just salt to the earth, kind of individuals that are, that are there to to emulate. So I appreciate you sharing that as well. I Emulate as well. You have to listen for a voice when you're making a change. Now, jeff I share this because I read it You had been working for Chick-fil-A and you didn't make a change like said okay, i'm going to go for another and work for another restaurant, change in a higher role or a change like that.
Speaker 1:You changed, let's say, the word industries. You changed basically your calling. I love how you define a calling in the book that says when your heart and soul say yes and your head says huh. I find that to be amusing and, again, absolutely challenging. Tell me a little bit more about that story and again how you recognized that that was what you're supposed to do. Maybe it's the Nebraska story, maybe something different.
Speaker 2:I'll say this as well Your mind is it the only one that says huh? your parents do, your in-laws do, your friends do Wait, wait, wait. You're leaving a multi-billion dollar company to go out and start a church where the preacher is going to be on video. This makes absolutely no sense. That's they were right. It didn't make any sense. And yet we still knew that this was the vision that we saw was, if we don't go after this and it works whenever we drive by this church building, we will always regret, because we could have looked at that and said we could have been a part of that, but we were too scared And I just and at that point again, i mentioned this earlier, john, i don't like the word ruined, but Chick-fil-A was kind of ruined for me at that point, because I knew I'm so intrigued by this, this church, that we were going to launch.
Speaker 2:I'm a preacher's kid. I promised myself I would never, ever, work at a church. I worked in a church for 17 years. So if your listeners don't get out, get anything out of what I say today, just they might want to write. I'll never say you're never going to do so And but it was just an incredible. It was an incredible ride And, but it matched up with my giftings, it matched up with my skills, it matched up with what Wendy and I were being led to, and and I got a green light from all of my mentors in my life, including my in-laws and my parents. But I'll say this when I left Chick-fil-A, because everybody, you know, looking back now, buckhead Church is, you know, just. It's been an. It was an incredible story to be a part of. So from now looking back, it makes like perfect sense.
Speaker 2:But then it didn't And I wasn't. People ask me how did you know that Buckhead Church was going to work? I didn't. So this is why I needed to leave Chick-fil-A really, really well, and I wrote the everybody on the executive committee and everyone in the marketing department, which collected like 70 people. I all wrote them a note and thanking them. I didn't say this in the note, john, but basically I said if the church doesn't work out, can I come back here and work Right?
Speaker 2:So and I think this is a principle that we often miss is how you leave your current season, is how you begin your next season, and I just wanted to leave Chick-fil-A exceedingly well. I want to leave every time I want to leave as well as I possibly can, and so I had done the due diligence for three years when this idea of a church plant began to surface in my heart and Wendy's heart. It wasn't like I had this idea on a Friday and reside on a Monday and started on Wednesday. This is a three year process of getting involved, understanding what my gift mix was. What were they looking for? How is this going to work?
Speaker 2:But still, there was driving away from Chick-fil-A. I mean I can see the Larry Bird figure on your desk there They gave me. And my last day at Chick-fil-A they gave me an autograph Larry Bird jersey as a thank you gift. And I'm driving away with that in the back of my car thinking this is the dumbest thing I've ever done, because Chick-fil-A's retention rate is 98% at the corporate staff And I'm one of the crazy 2%. So but again, there's always a part of the risk. But we wanted to shrink the risk as much as we could And if it didn't work out, we could at least say you know what? we gave it a shot, it was worth it And we'll figure something out. But fortunately. Fortunately, it worked out really well.
Speaker 1:I smile so much. I mean again, i don't. I don't even want to talk about my stories in terms of when I left Rona for June the first time and I had young children three and one and we took my mother-in-law and father-in-law to lunch And we hadn't, we'd just barely ordered our lunch and my wife says well, we're leaving and moving to Indiana. Her mom goes check And I don't think she talked to me for two years but she got it. And then, five years later, i came back you don't burn that bridge And we actually went into business together. My mother-in-law and I went into business together in real estate.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:She did start to talk to me again in terms of how that works. But in terms of leaving, you touched on that. I mean and you touched on this in several things in the book You don't burn bridges as you leave, because that opportunity may come back to you in terms of, again, i left an organization at the top. They came back to me three times And I said no three times. When they come back And I'm still good friends with the CEO, with the retired CEO now, who's still my mentor. So all those stories too much about me You talk about in the book, when you do leave, don't linger too long when you leave. Tell me a little bit more about that as well.
Speaker 2:All right, this was great feedback when I because, when I left Buckhead Church to help start another church and that's really where the four idea was born in Gwinnett County, which is a county north of Atlanta, it's the largest county in Georgia And that's when four Gwinnett was kind of sparked and born and then other churches started emulating that around the country, which is fun to see. But when I left Buckhead and when I left Gwinnett, i just I was reminded by a mentor when you leave, leave, don't linger and give the next leader space, because they may and they will change things, you know, and so don't be lingering around where people can come up to you and go Hey, what's going on? I don't like this. Gosh, we really wish you were still here. All that kind of stuff that happens when, when former leaders kind of still linger around too much, and so we, we left, which is hard because you're leaving not just your job, you're leaving your community, you're leaving the people. In this case I hired everyone at the two Gwinnett's locations. But in honor and respect to the new leaders, you need to leave.
Speaker 2:And I see sometimes and again, every situation is unique and different. Sometimes I see leaders, especially founders they quote unquote leave and then they take us kind of a side job And I don't know about that And again, it can work, but I just wonder how the leader who's having to take over for that leader feels. So I, just for me, i just felt like I'm going to, you know, i'm going to leave, really, really well, and there's another principle I put in the book that I think it's helpful to note is that how you leave an organization is one thing, how the organization leaves you is the other, and you don't have control over that. So, take the high road, but you know, if they're not treating you well, you can, you know, still be respectful and silent and move on, but how you leave is in your area of responsibility. Yeah, control absolutely, but we never.
Speaker 2:I don't know why we don't talk about leaving well that much in leadership circles because we think it's like a two week notice. It's not Every day. You're one step closer to leaving, wherever you are. And just, and it's an emotional battle I was with this morning, i had breakfast with a gentleman who's the president of a multi-billion dollar company and he's retiring at the end of the year, and we talked more about the emotional part of that for him versus what is he going to do. He's going to be fine, but it's really the battle for him is going to be the emotional one, because people have to move on. This is a high-paced organization and people that he hears from right now every day. It'll go from every day to three days, to one week, to two weeks, to three months, to not seeing them for six months, to maybe never seeing them again.
Speaker 1:So, and that's just the part of organizational life that you have to deal with- I think you're exactly right And I think that doesn't necessarily impact the legacy that you leave as well. I mean, I think that's still there, but it is a situation you got to let the next leader be the next leader as well, and when you're leaving that and find that opportunity.
Speaker 1:And if you take, you know, the advice that's in your book in terms of leaving well and some of the things you do, the story that you talked about how you met with the team and made sure everything was going to work out over the last period of time that absolutely is so good. It's something I always say. How are you going to make sure you finish well? There's no doubt about that. Hey, let me ask you this fun question, a little bit outside the book, maybe a little bit in it. So I have a 23-year-old who went into the youth ministry. He said he wants to plant churches. It's like where he is right now And you talk about in the book.
Speaker 1:Why would we ask an 18-year-old to make a decision on where they're going to be in life four years out and what they're going to study and things like that? And you were going through that And I remember you know he talked about when he turned 20, going into ministry, me being the fine dad that I was. I'm like, okay, what are you going to study? so that I know they won't make any money in ministry, so you got to have some other gig going on. Maybe you should study history and be a lawyer, so that you can also be administered at the same time. And he went into the youth ministry. What do you have to tell him? Let me be. You know, joseph, when he wants to plant a church, what do you have to tell him?
Speaker 2:So your 20s are your opportunity to discover what you're really good at, what your skill set And, yeah, what you're passionate about. but sometimes what you're passionate about, that's not necessarily your pathway. And I mean, you can be passionate about country music, but you can't go into country music if you can't sing right.
Speaker 2:So I think, understanding what are you good at And where are your skills helping solve a problem for organizations. And I think sometimes we've talked about ideas, but really what I was trained on, especially at Chick-fil-A, my marketing mentor said, hey, a problem well-defined is half solved. Don't fall in love with the idea. Fall in love with the problem and then figure out. The idea will come. And so in your 20s, what's your skill set? Where do you go to try as much stuff as you possibly can in terms of the work that's before you and then figure out where is that helping you solve the problem? So in youth ministry, okay, well, we all know that youth are really struggling with anxiety and depression at alarming rates. Okay, so what can you do in a church setting to help solve that in your community? Get to know the students in your community. And how are you a good communicator? Are you a good leader? Are you a good strategist? Are you a good event planner? Try it all out.
Speaker 2:And early in my 20s I worked in marketing for the Atlanta Braves and discovered there are some things that I was terrible at. They had to be selling program ads without a call. Like Coca-Cola, would you like to buy an ad in the Braves program. I was horrible at it. My palms would sweat, i would stutter. They couldn't understand what I was saying. So I came home and told my dad I'm just terrible at this. And my dad said that's good news. But how is that good news? He goes you've discovered something that you're not good at. But I know there's things that you're doing that you are good at. What is it? Well, i'm pretty good at writing and coming up with ideas and working with corporate sponsors. When we do like Coca-Cola Bat Night or something, Hellment Night. And he goes okay, that's pay attention to that. I just I feel like we do people in their 20s like you're starting to service when we hand them a piece of paper with boxes on them and say check one, and to let us know what you're going to do for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:I just don't think that's the reality of how any of us figured this out. It's why people change their major in college two or three times And even when they do get out, they're still trying to figure out what to do next. So it's a journey, and so that's, and that's what. My daughter's a year out of college and she's helping launch a church and it's been incredible. There's been things she's discovered. She's great at some things that she doesn't like doing. All that's the learning process, especially in your 20s.
Speaker 1:Love it, jeff. I appreciate you sharing that Absolutely Well, jeff, i certainly. I know you've done a lot of these podcasts after the book launch and getting this thing ready to go. I am curious. just really. two more questions from me because I want to honor your time. You've been so gracious with your time, but what? what question has nobody asked you that you wish somebody would have asked you about the book, and I don't know if that's a fair question or not, but as you think about that like I just wish they'd ask me this question. They never do.
Speaker 2:I think what, what did you take out of the book that you know, because I've had, i had friends, you know, read it. They read, you know, full version And and, and I think you know it's good, because part of this for me was therapeutic, and writing it because I, i wrote it the month after we had left. That's when I started Well, no, it was a little longer than that, so but when I started it, you know, we're still kind of in the grief process of all that, and so I think this was a, this was a good form of counseling for me, and because part of it, part of what to do next, i would say the largest part of what to do next. But let me say this if you've been somewhere and you gave your heart and soul and you gave it all, and then you wake up one day, like I did, and you're not there anymore and I wasn't moving toward one job to the next, i was moving from a job to an idea, and banks don't deposit ideas. I've checked, i've asked them. They've said no, so where is this money gonna come from, and all of that. And so I think, just the what did you decide to take out? What did you decide? Because I didn't want this to be too.
Speaker 2:There's a whole chapter about grief And I write in the chapter. I know you didn't get this book to talk about grief, but I, it was a part of my story. But I hired a transition consultant And I was processing this with him. He goes Jeff, this is what I do for a living. You're not some odd person that is at a great day and at a bad day and you're trying to figure this out. This is actually what I do for a living. And what people what keeps me and my employees people are going through career transitions going? how do I figure this out? And so no one's really asked me what. What is out of the book? So maybe that's the sequel of the book, what I took out.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. Well, i know you got another one coming and I want to ask you to reveal it, because you said at the very end you got a third one brewing, so maybe that's part of it.
Speaker 1:But, look, I appreciate you being so honest And I do always have my guests. Maybe it gives you an opportunity to say this at the end as well. But each, each of the guests on the podcast, I ask them. I give them a billboard. So I'm gonna give you a billboard in Atlanta, Goodness gracious, Maybe right outside the airport, the busiest airport in the world And everybody sits in traffic so they can watch it anyway. But I give you that billboard and you can write anything on that billboard that you want. What are you gonna write on that billboard and why are you gonna put that on there?
Speaker 2:I've actually done this And I've put eat more chicken And that was one time up. Then I put hashtag for going at another billboard. So I've kind of done this before. But I know that's not what you're asking, john, but it's gotta be just two or three words for my marketing background. So I would say the two words I would put would be practice, humility, practice humility.
Speaker 2:No one wants to follow an arrogant leader, but I was with an organization recently. One of their values that they showed me was we are humble. And I said I don't like that And I thought you wanted us to be humble. Everybody wants you to be humble, but we are humble is saying you know what one of the best thing about us is? We're our humility. We are so humble. We are humble. That's who we are.
Speaker 2:Humility is not a noun, humility is a verb, and so I can't come to work every day and go. I am humble. What I need to do is ask the question will I practice humility today And will I take the low place? When I come into a conference room, will I look for the top seat or will I look for the seat of least significance and push everybody forward? And my first business mentor said there's not a limit to what a person can do when he or she doesn't care who gets the credit, and so he was teaching me about practicing humility. And it's just a. It's a, it's a character check And people want to follow humble, humble leaders. People want to follow leaders who are practicing humility.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, jeff. That doesn't need anything else from me. All I have to say is I appreciate you investing the time with our listeners here with me, and taking that chance with me when I ask big and ask you to be on the podcast. I certainly appreciate you taking that opportunity And I will be sure to continue to gift what to do next And what are you for To many people who are growing. So thank you again for being on the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks, john, i appreciate your support means a lot And we'll see you soon, hopefully somewhere down the road.
Speaker 1:Alrighty, well, that's all for today's episode of the uncommon leader podcast. Thanks for listening in. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and lead a review. You can do that on Apple podcast or you can rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen. Until next time, go and grow channels.
