The Uncommon Leader Podcast

Leading with Purpose: Integrating Lean Methodologies for Transformational Growth

• John Gallagher

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Discover the transformative power of leadership coupled with the efficiency of lean methodologies as I sit down with Felipe Engineer on the EBFC Show. Our conversation unveils the critical role that leaders play in steering change and the profound effects that lean practices have on personal and organizational development. Together, we navigate the essence of impactful leadership, emphasizing the necessity of a well-defined 'why' and the leader's responsibility to uplift standards and drive transformation. Delve into the challenges that leaders face, like maintaining focus amidst distractions, and the myths surrounding multitasking as we offer tangible strategies, including the five Ds method, to enhance leadership effectiveness and promote purposeful growth.

Joining forces with Felipe, we shed light on the art of aligning actions with intentions, utilizing personalized coaching techniques like 'knowing your chickens', to achieve remarkable improvements in work-life balance and performance. Our discussion takes you through the diverse applications of lean principles across industries, showcasing those pivotal moments when executives realize the magnitude of change needed for organizational betterment. The stories we share resonate with the human side of leadership, presenting emotional narratives that serve as catalysts for change and highlight the necessity for leaders to establish a profound connection with their teams.

As I reflect on my personal journey and the 'why' behind my choice to coach, I invite listeners to contemplate their own paths to effective leadership. I recount tales of leaders from various sectors, from healthcare to real estate, illustrating that the principles of lean management transcend industry boundaries. These narratives not only inspire but also emphasize the importance of leaders being fully present in their interactions, fostering authentic connections and growth. Tune in to be inspired and to learn how you can lead with clarity, purpose, and put powerful stories at the heart of your growth strategy.

Thanks for listening in to the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Please take just a minute to share this podcast with that someone you know that you thought of when you heard this episode. One of the most valuable things you can do is to rate the podcast and leave a review. You can do that on Apple podcasts, or rate the podcast on Spotify or any other platform you listen.

Did you know that many of the things that I discuss on the Uncommon Leader Podcast are subjects that I coach other leaders and organizations ? If you would be interested in having me discuss 1:1 or group coaching with you, or know someone who is looking to move from Underperforming to Uncommon in their business or life, I would love to chat with you. Click this link to set up a FREE CALL to discuss how coaching might benefit you and your team)

Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!

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Speaker 1:

What are you doing intentionally to develop yourself so that you can continue to inspire, encourage and equip others on their journey? You know, if it's something for me in terms of a task to ask folks to do, it really is to understand why they do their work For me. I want to make a difference with people who want to make a difference, doing something that makes a difference at a time that makes a difference, and right now we have a need for leaders in our homes, in our communities, in our workplaces, in our country, and if we're not raising the average of the room when we walk into it, then what are we doing to get better? Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, john Gallagher.

Speaker 1:

I'm excited to present a very special episode for you today that offers a wealth of insight from my recent guest appearance on the EBFC show EBFC standing for Easier, better, faster Construction and it's hosted by the extremely talented Felipe Engineer. Our conversation takes a deep dive into the fascinating intersections of leadership and lean methodologies, providing actionable strategies for both personal and organizational growth. So prepare to be inspired as we explore transformative ideas and dive into the world of continuous improvement and leadership excellence, a topic that I just love to talk about. If you find this discussion as enlightening as I did, I highly recommend following Felipe on his various platforms to stay connected with his invaluable content. Let's get started.

Speaker 2:

John, it is my pleasure to have you on the show. We have a mutual friend, mr Doug Doolin, that recommended and connected us, and I am so happy that he did. It's always great to have another podcaster on the show, but even better than that, someone with your credentials and experience. I feel like this is going to be a masterclass in lean and as well, change and transformation, which is like your day in and day out what you do all the time. So I want to get right into the show. There's going to be a link in the show notes below where people could get in touch with John. All of his preferred social media will be down there, as well as a little bit more about his podcast, his amazing blog. So, ladies and gentlemen, please, while John starts to talk, feel free to go down and tap on that expanded description so you can get in touch with John, follow his content and definitely do. I'm following and subscribe to the Uncommon Leader podcast myself and I highly recommend that content. It is very good and I'm using it to also PDCA this podcast episode. So thank you so much for that, john.

Speaker 2:

But, john, I want to open it up and kick it off right away. Can you tell me. So many people that listen to the show are involved in improving themselves, their organizations, their projects and in construction, and I found that across many industries got a lot of friends. In manufacturing we're facing the same kinds of challenges and I want to take a unique look at this and focus on executive leadership, and I know that you've got a ton of experience at companies like Harvard, ibm. What can you tell us about when you work with an executive leadership or a leadership team that resists change initially and then how can you, how do you use your method the greatest story ever told to factor in and how you help them navigate transformation and just, it's okay to change, or whatever you tell them, john? I can't wait to hear it.

Speaker 1:

I know right. I mean, what is it that gets them to go right? I mean it's funny because by the time I get in through the door, the organization really has, I think, made the decision that they want to change. There's no doubt about it. If they're consulting with someone much like we talked about at the start with regards to a nutritionist or a trainer they're recognizing that there's a need for a change. And I understand when I talk to leadership teams right off the bat, because I've got this on my wall too Everything rises and falls on leadership. We can't delegate that responsibility through the organization. So any leader who believes that they can embark on a transformational journey that requires a change in their behavior as well as a change in the organization, and they think they can delegate that change, it's just not going to work.

Speaker 1:

So I try to do an assessment up front to really think you know, are they truly willing to be ready to make that change? Because it is not easy. It's simple. The steps are easy. There are seven steps to personal organizational transformation. As we go through it, a3 thinking will tell us there. I mean, people teach five box, nine, box A3 thinking.

Speaker 1:

But ultimately it's that leader making the choice that they are not where they want to be and they're willing to close that gap. Because I think that's an important assessment up front inside the organization and that need can come up in a lot of different ways. It's inside of an organization that wants to grow that identifies an opportunity to grow where they may be not profitable and so they're looking to eliminate waste in those changes. But what really is that driving force? What's that reason for action? For me, inside, the greatest story ever told I often refer to that as the so that in that space they have either an opportunity or they have a problem they need to solve and they must improve. But what's the why associated with that as an organization, if they can't connect it to the why? Whether it's I want to prepare this organization so that it can be handed down to the next generation you see that a lot inside of construction, family-owned businesses that are trying to prepare the next generation to get ready to run the business, or whether it's simply as they want to create an environment for their I'd say simply create an environment for their employees that they can thrive, that they can grow, and they want to develop others. That so that that purpose in mind is very important for the organization, and if they've got some clarity I mean we have to work through that but if they have some clarity on what that why is, then I think it's something that can be pretty powerful and they can start down that journey.

Speaker 1:

When I use the greatest story ever told analogy, what I really talk about is someone's going to sit down someday and they're going to be asked whether it's by an instructor or a podcast host or whatever it is and say tell me five people who've made a positive impact on your life. And if someone writes your name on that list, whether you know it or not, to me that's the greatest story ever told. That means you're making a difference in somebody's life. That means you've done something to add value to someone else and they recognize that difference Oftentimes and you mentioned the podcast I ask that question right on the front end with people tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts you and that's what you find out. You find out who in their life whether it's a family member or a teacher or a coach who's made an impact on them, both positive or negative, that have required them or really inspired them to change and go forward.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that story and I think a lot of people working in organizations and I've got a lot of friends in this type of space that are change makers, trying to bring change to the industry and sometimes they feel like they're facing an uphill battle. And I think, making that connection with the people that are quote-unquote resisting, I think we often fail to connect the why and sometimes you learn something like you can do A3s, I can do A3s and we actually do them right. Versus people that have read about it, have heard about it, have no idea, like, what it is to actually do it. Don't I don't even know why would you do it? Like we know why we do it. And I've had this conversation inside of many change maker spaces and said people have to have that experience and you you, if you're the person with the experience like, what kind of environment can you set to enable that leader to have the experience where they're like okay, I should be reaching for an A3 to solve this type of problem. Versus you know, resisting, if A3 is the thing right, it could be something else.

Speaker 2:

Like you said, you know if the company's not profitable. So that that's another one. That's really interesting, john, because in a lot of organizations, especially in construction companies are not necessarily have to be profitable on paper with current accounting practices, but the executive still lives a great lifestyle, right? They've got two houses. I know some construction executives with five houses and from their perspective everything's great, like they're getting paid, they have super high salaries, they've got these crazy high bonuses, but the company is like not performing well. The attrition rate of the employees is very high, above average, you know, north of 25 but they're getting paid. So in the system, like they don't understand and you know, and they're even higher.

Speaker 2:

I even know one company that started hiring lawyers in every office. So, like, every office has lawyers because of decisions that they made in their system, they never step back and look at well, we can keep extracting from the organization or we can start doing value creation. That's a totally different mindset and it's one of those times where sometimes you've got to recognize what kind of organization you're in. But I think if you can connect with people at the human level, like you're suggesting, answer that. Why? So changemakers? Listen to John. John's right. That's going to be my mantra Hashtag listen to John.

Speaker 1:

Let me put that out there. Let's get that going. Let's get that hashtag going Hashtag.

Speaker 2:

Listen to John Connect with the why, and I love that story about getting people to think way far into the future. That's another thing that you're doing. That's enabling reflection. That is not so normal. So I think those two things together, coupled together, is going to be very powerful medicine. So I want to stay on your experience train for a second. You're behind the scenes, working one-on-one. What are some of the things that people in the great organization will never know, but you can anonymize for us and give us some insight a little peek behind the curtain. What are some of the obstacles that they're facing, like why they can't change, and then what are you doing to help them overcome? What they're telling you is the no, why we can't do it different.

Speaker 1:

Great question, and it's one I mean again. If I had to prioritize what I hear and what I see, it really comes down to two things for me that I've identified with the organizations that I go into work with. The first one is focus or a lack of focus. You can do anything you want to, you just can't do everything you want to. Of focus, you can do anything you want to, you just can't do everything you want to. And you get into some of these organizations, especially the ones that you talked about. They're living the life that they want to live and they're like oh yeah, I can do all these things to make those things happen. And you are probably right, you can do all those things, but it doesn't mean you're going to do all those things really well. And so I think, trying to get them to really focus on the main thing and making the main thing the main thing, whether it's in the initiatives inside of their organization or, frankly again, in their daily work and what they're focused on, and then you bring it into the leadership and you think about what those things are going on. The second biggest thing that I see in the daily, weekly and monthly implementation of those changes that they need to make. It's distractions implementation of those changes that they need to make. It's distractions.

Speaker 1:

I find leaders who absolutely believe that multitasking working on many things is possible and it's been proven in science that it just isn't, that multitasking is a myth, and that they've got to eliminate some of the distractions, some of the noise that's happening around them, for example.

Speaker 1:

Just using one as an example, many leaders will say that they have an open door policy.

Speaker 1:

And if you have an open door policy, then you don't have a very good policy if it's open all the time, because how many times do you run into a situation, do leaders run into a situation, where somebody knocks on the door and say you got a minute and you're working on an important task that you know is part of your daily ritual? You say I'll give them a minute because I have an open door policy, and 30 minutes later you're still talking to that person about sports and then you try to get back into the focus. So organizations that try to do too many things will not succeed long term sustainably. Leaders that try to have those you know be everything to everyone will have trouble in succeeding long-term as well, because they'll allow those distractions to keep them from succeeding. So those are the two biggest things that I see right now, felipe, that organizations and individual leaders run into John, that's incredible that you have you're seeing that you know behind the scenes with executive teams organizationally.

Speaker 2:

uh, I work with scrum inc and I'm scrum trainer as well and I love scrum so much and and everything you said. Number one like we're becoming very good friends. You don't even know it's happening. But, uh, speaking your language, what are the things that? Uh, as jeff and his team is, work with companies large and small across the planet? Uh, inability to prioritize or focus. In just plain English, this is exactly what you're saying. Number one problem at companies large and small. And then, uh, like you said, I've never heard that phrase. That's such a good way to think about a bad open door policy. It's got to have limits.

Speaker 2:

And as you were telling that, I was like flashing back. I remember one CEO of a large construction company had an open door policy and people would come into his office and most of the time they would just jabber jaw, they would complain. I was making copies one time for a lawsuit we were involved in, so I had to do all this time at the copy machine. So I was. I had to do all this time at the copy machine, so I was like chained to it because this was before I would get automate stuff and it was a lot of paper files. So I'm there and this, uh, a leader of a department leader comes into the office and they're just complaining for like 40 minutes. And I'm still there Cause I'm just making these copies. And at the end of the 40 minutes, you know, the CEO made some comments and gave them some insights, but I could tell the person walking out of there was not different at all, like they were complaining. And then it started being a pattern like all the time, and I started realizing like man, this this is probably not that good. Like all the time that was just spent on that was not spent on looking out for the business, was not spent on putting out fires for other things that are really, you know, happening. It's like, yeah, like why am I involved in this lawsuit right now too? Like right, what, what? Uh, you know my level at that time. I was just like an assistant manager. So it's like, uh, that that's where really the help could be, because we're not putting first things first.

Speaker 2:

And then you said that lack of focus. I've heard from people in organizations, john, talk about change fatigue. And then, when you look into it. As I've looked into it, I start to realize that a lot of executive groups are just every year, like when they go through their planning cycles, they want to rebrand, rename, change things. So from their perspective they're like we're doing the good work of like improving, but from the employee's perspective, they're like what is the flavor of the month now? That's right, and it's not, it's not consistent and I think that's like really tough for people to understand because their intentions are really good but the actions don't match.

Speaker 2:

And again, I want to go back to what you said earlier. You know, if someone was going to write your name down of how you influence them, like for a company to like I can remember I study a lot of history and sometimes you get lucky and you can pinpoint like this organization's trajectory changed when this individual was like stubbornly stuck on X and that made the difference. And that will attract people to companies and keep people there, especially when there's a higher purpose involved in what you're doing, because nobody goes to work to help you know, some numbers on the page go one percentage point higher.

Speaker 2:

You know, since you're on this theme of, like executives and executive resistance and I hope the listeners are starting to get some hashtag, just listen to John insights here how do you tailor your coaching to address the unique resistance patterns? You see, cause you said you mentioned two main categories, you see. So what do you do, the way you show up with your clients to, so that you don't come in like, oh, I already know what's going to happen, like how do you keep it fresh for yourself?

Speaker 1:

I think I end up smiling with them as I go in, felipe, because you know that you're going to see like they're going to. They're going to, first of all, that they're unique and that their problems are different. And so you know, while I don't want to put everything in the bucket of focus and distractions, it's going to cover about 80% and they're going to think well, my distractions are different and so I allow some of that to go on with regards to tailoring, but ultimately, you know, I'm pretty intentional at getting these individuals to just start writing down what's important to them, and then I ask them to show me their calendar. It's very frustrating. So show me your calendar. If you say these are the things that are important to you now show me your calendar. And the crosswalk between what you're working on and the things that you say are important. And generally for me, it's not me telling them they're doing the wrong things. It's for me to make them aware that they can see themselves like oh yeah, I'm not working on the wrong stuff, I'm not working on the right stuff right now, am I? And I said no, I mean so how do we move toward that? And so the prioritization process I use with them, I often refer to as the five Ds.

Speaker 1:

What are the things that they can deselect completely, things that just don't need to be done if they're not important in the organization? What can they delegate that needs to happen, frankly, what can they defer? It may not be as important right now. What is important right now as they move forward in the organization and as they get through those. If they still have things they need to do, then they need to deconstruct it. This comes into the scrum, this comes into the lean of eliminating the waste inside of processes, because I don't want them to automate anything before they take the waste out of the processes. Those are the first four Ds Defer, excuse me, deselect, delegate, defer, deconstruct and if all four of those things happen, then they got to do it. Ultimately. If they can't get, if they can't get into those four, they got to do it. They got to get it in their calendar and see what's, see what's possible for them. Then they start to make things efficient and get those done. And if I can continue to ask those same five questions in terms of what they're able to do over and over again and get them to reflect, then they'll start to be able to free up that. John. I don't have the time to do all this lean stuff. Well, you've got to get rid of some of the other wasteful activities that you're working on to get there.

Speaker 1:

So of course I have to understand you know personalities. I mean, if I, if I work with an organization right now, it's got three family members that are, you know, at the top of the organization, all with different personalities, all with different approaches. So I used to have a colleague in lean who would say you got to know your chickens, and that sounds a little bit odd. But all of them have different personalities but ultimately the output is going to be the same. It's going to be one egg a day. You just have to be able to work with them to help inspire and encourage them, and people are moved in different ways. So finding those different ways for example, whether it's one individual who's very structured and very focused then you create those wins for them. You create a visual win for them that allows them to feel like they're succeeding when another leader might be very relational, very similar. You help them to create those wins from a relationship standpoint but become very focused and very intentional on the tasks they have to do daily. Knowing your chicken is very important.

Speaker 1:

I do an assessment on the front end to really understand, even again, leaders and organizations. Where are they in life? Where are they with regards to their fitness and their health? Where are they with regards to their personal finances? Again, you've touched on already in terms of what goes on in construction. That tends to not get people to change. But legacy, making a difference in the space that they're in, with the people that they work with, is generally what motivates folks inside of that space. They want to have their name written on that list. They're all different Absolutely. If I try to go in with a cookie-cutter approach, it doesn't happen.

Speaker 2:

I like that advice too, that you smile along with them. You, you know, smile along with them. And uh, and everyone does think it's gotta be some kind of human psychological bias that we all think that we're having a super unique experience, uh, living. And I, you know, I want to pick on all the executives, just so people know, I also know some executives that live paycheck to paycheck. So that's out there, that's called variation. And then as you get deeper into your long journey probably listeners out there you understand what kind of havoc variation plays, or how variation makes life so much more interesting.

Speaker 1:

Very interesting would be one of those words and some folks thrive in that space, right, that's the challenge of a lean leader. I want to be like that organization over there, but are you willing to do what they've done, to do what they do as a lean organization? That's the key question for a leader, and you try, you got to try and figure that out early on. If they're really willing to make the changes they need to make, what changes are you willing to make Felipe to? To? You know, bring that, uh, the fitness journey, uh, better Cause, yeah, there, there, there are ways we have to change our mindset and our lifestyle to get there. The same thing in leaders and changing organizations Absolutely, john.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I'm going to hashtag no French fries starting right now. Last week I probably had four orders of French fries. I was on the road in Nashville. I never got Nashville hot chicken, but I did have seasoned fries multiple times, and four times too many for sure.

Speaker 1:

So I'm going to yeah, just double the good, half the bad, Just cut it in half. Next time that's all Go to two times Two times with broccoli, two times with French fries. I mean, it's just, it's a continuous improvement journey, felipe, it's one that you have to be able to adjust to.

Speaker 2:

I like that and see, just like that. Ladies and gentlemen, john is now coaching me. It was that fast, it's so easy. I appreciate it, john. So now I want to let's go a little bit deeper. So, thinking about you, know all the executives you work with, john. Can you remember a time where you you can pinpoint a turning point where the executive was like they had the aha moment and then that became pivotal to accepting what the change was they needed to make, and what strategies would you give credit to for making that happen?

Speaker 1:

Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share something special with you. Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations. If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me. It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team. Okay, let's get back to the show. So I like to refer to those as mic drop moments, and I'm a big fan of movies to use as examples in leadership, and the one that I talk about is Nanny McPhee, and it's one of those ones that says you know, to a certain extent, that when you need me but don't want me, I got to stay. I'm still going to hang around. When you want me but don't need me, then I'm going to go. It's time for me to go, and that's the transition moment that you're looking for, when the hey, john, I need you to come in, because I refer to myself with these folks as an enigma all the time. By the time I leave at the end of the week, or by the time our coaching session is done, you're probably going to hate me a little bit, but you're going to love to see me come back because you know you're learning, you know you're growing.

Speaker 1:

I'll get to your question here in terms of an example. There is one specific example of a leader who I had been working with probably for six years and it's in the value of what I refer to my word leader standard work. So we talk about standard work and lean in terms of how we do processes, but the leader has to have standard work for their day and what that means. And that leader standard work can be visualized in many different ways. You can put it in your calendar, you can put it in a spreadsheet, hang it on a wall, put it on a flip chart, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 1:

And I had tried many ways to work with this leader in health care and she put her disciplines on the wall that she needed to do on a daily, weekly, monthly basis and had to check those tasks off as she got done during the day. But, more importantly, it ended up helping her to spend more time at home. She was leaving on time when she wanted to at least again double the good, half the bad, where she was staying at work too late almost every day during the week. She got to where three out of five days during the week she was going home on time, able to make dinner for her family and get that done and spend time with them.

Speaker 1:

So it's a matter of being persistent and being diligent in trying different methodologies. If I were to go in with only one approach, as a consultant rather than a coach, and the only way to solve this is to do this in Excel spreadsheet, then there aren't going to be many people who transform Back to that know your chickens methodology. You got to work with them in many different ways to find that light bulb moment for them to say, ah, I understand, now it makes sense. So when you can see that that makes my work, that I have my why more powerful, because they're going to remember that moment Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I love that too, for all the lean coaches out there listening to this episode. You heard John say there's more than one way, because I know some of you out there with your one single way and you're just beating people up with it. So know your chickens. Know your chickens, absolutely Hashtag know your chickens, hashtag, know your chickens. Know your chickens, absolutely, hashtag, hashtag, know your chickens.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's good hashtags coming, there we go.

Speaker 2:

So I want to, you know, let's go a little. We'll stay on this leadership thinking here, this leadership thought train. I want to type back into your experience, because you've got such a wealth of lean experience. It would be a crime if I didn't ask you some more lean questions, john, because you're just such a you're a warehouse of experience and information there. So I want to say, focusing on you know, leadership development and lean methodology. You know some people see those things as different. Some people see them as the same.

Speaker 2:

You've, you've been very intentional in your space and I've, you know, I've done the deeper dive on your LinkedIn profile to see what kind of things you talk about. And definitely you're making a mark on leadership and specifically with the uncommon leader podcast. But how do you see, from your perspective, how are these two things like intersecting? And then how is it enhancing what you're doing in coaching? Like intersecting, and then how is it enhancing what you're doing in coaching? And it's like, and what's your? I'd love to know, like your, why? For you know you could, you could go work anywhere, but you choose to coach. And so like how, how is lean and coaching and why you coach all intersecting?

Speaker 1:

Wow, there's a lot there in that question. Let me try and unwrap that just a bit. So let's talk about that intersection of lean and leadership. If I use my definition of lean, I refer to it as the passionate pursuit of the elimination of waste. That that is lean. When I think about that from a leadership perspective, I do believe on the mantra everything rises and falls on leadership and that if we can't lead ourselves first, it's going to be difficult for us to lead organizations on a transformation journey. That says what's the passionate pursuit of elimination of waste? So in our daily operations we have standard work for tasks that need to be done as leaders.

Speaker 1:

Look, this bookshelf is full of books on leadership that identify tasks and disciplines that leaders must do to be a successful leader. The same as developing my organization or improving a process out on the shop floor, out in the field, at a construction site, in a hospital or clinic. Why wouldn't those two things overlap and utilize that same thinking and that's sometimes the biggest light bulb moment for folks is when they realize that I can use I mean, I can use A3 thinking to develop myself as well. Absolutely, I've got that reason for action. You identify where you want to be and where you are today and you close those gaps, just like you do in any process where you go forward to making things happen. So it's a natural overlap to me in terms of that thinking and, frankly, maybe that's sometimes me, in that I can't have too many things going on in my brain at the same time and so I get stuck with this one methodology like that is lean. That I've been learning for 25 years and I was one of those blockheads. Before that said, get this guy out of here. It was 1998 when they brought a lean consultant into my building. I'm like, okay, let's get his weekend and get him out of here. But I don't know what it was from a trigger standpoint, but when he was done that week teaching us, I'm like I'm in. It was from a trigger standpoint, but when he was done that week teaching us, I'm like I'm in, it just made sense. It was something that clicked during that process and it was probably the system thinking. So I believe to be successful, you can make improvements, whether it's in your fitness journey, whether it's in your faith journey or whether it's in your development as a leader, and that you've got to be able to maintain and continuously improve that journey. You've got to put the systems, processes and disciplines in place to ensure that it doesn't backslide.

Speaker 1:

I often use this picture as a wedge that keeps the ball from rolling back downhill again. It's those many ebbs and flows that we go through as leaders, because if we don't put it in as a lifestyle, as an organization or as a leader, it becomes difficult to change. So I find it difficult to separate the two. Do I talk in every leadership activity that the way I do this is through lean? No, but the way I do that is through systematic problem solving, and to me that is lean. Too many times people think lean is an acronym. They use capital one, capital l or all four capitalized to make it look like an acronym. Lean really is a strategy that allows us to grow as organizations, allows us to grow as leaders, and it's a, it's a way of thinking that allows us to be successful.

Speaker 2:

That's incredible and I super appreciate that answer, john. And and like, like you're saying like there's no, there's not even intersection, it's's the same, it's the same fabric, same cloth, and I totally agree. But I'm super biased people. If you haven't figured out in this show for construction podcast, like and I've said why I even borrowed from Shigeo Shingo develop Tai Chi on, develop the Toyota production system. He's your better, faster, cheaper was one of the inspirations for the show. Everyone knows that I'm into lean, I dig it and there's some, there's people out there all the time and even friends of mine they're like lean is dead, it's dying. And I tell people like that it's a, it's an idea and a philosophy and a mindset and it doesn't ever die. It just sometimes changes names and over over the years it does morph in, the names change and we'll probably live through changing the name because it's been out there now for a while and we'll see what it is.

Speaker 1:

Oh, each organization loves to give it their own name, right? I mean, I have clients that rename lean to something else that aligns with their organization, absolutely. And you get another ism here from me. You get another hashtag, whatever it is. I'm like, look, I don't care what you call it, call it pineapple, okay, it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that you develop a new way of thinking. You develop a systematic process that allows you to understand when things are going wrong, that you can see it real time and that you can make a change as a result of it. Like I said, call it whatever you want to.

Speaker 2:

I don't get too hung up in the I have been in a meeting with some of my friends at bolt and we've called things pineapple. So that is a. It's definitely a good strategy and make it work and it's kind of a little bit too. So I want to know like, uh, you know, you, you worked in some big names like, again, harvard, ibm and other large corporations. Sometimes it's like a faceless mass of just so many people when you're working in a space like that and the organization has charged you like John, we're bringing you in to do X. What strategies do you use to serve what they want but also help them to recognize that they might not yet understand the problem?

Speaker 1:

Well, and I was reflecting on this question that I saw coming in there and for me, you probably won't be surprised to hear this answer, felipe, but the first thing I do is take them to the GEMBA, whether it's the executive leadership team. I said let's go out and see that client that I work with. They said what do you want to see inside the building here? I said I don't want to see a thing inside the building. I said take me to the job site and show me what's happening at the job site. I'll get to somebody else to take you over there and show you around. I'm like no, no, no, you go with me as a leader to the job site. That's the start of the journey, because to a certain extent, you mentioned Ono of the journey, because to a certain extent you mentioned, you mentioned oh, no, uh, one of my uh least used but favorite techniques is the oh no circle, where I'll take a leader into a workplace and say just stand here and don't do anything. And it's so hard for leaders to do to say that's not how things are supposed to be working, that's not how things are supposed to go. I need to go fix that. Nope, just leave it alone and stand here. It's one of the most painful things that a leader can observe. But once they see what's happening in their workplace from a different perspective, they tend to realize a little bit more and say something to the effect of I didn't know it was like that, I didn't know it was that bad. We need to change, and so that's the first step in the journey. For me, it's not going to be about making a spreadsheet about their business. It's about going to the workplace, going to the GIMBA and seeing. I ask the question what flows Take me through? What flows Because you mentioned some of the clients I mean lean often gets pinned into, whether it's lean construction or lean manufacturing, into those spaces. But it works in healthcare, it works in real estate, it works in just came back from a concrete pouring facility the other day. What flows? Well, the concrete flows. But ultimately, what goes through the organization? It can be done in transactional environments.

Speaker 1:

We've done value streams, if you will, in the development of the human, from that point in which you identify someone to the point in which they leave the organization. What are all the steps in between? So, when you take them to the workplace, when you take them and observe what's really happening. We know that our teachers in Lean would absolutely insist on that, and that's the starting point. They have to see.

Speaker 1:

I mean, this sounds even strong. You got to rub their nose in a little bit like you train others, right, and I don't mean that as totally degrading to executives, but they've got to see firsthand, because they don't really know from their offices what's really happening inside their organization. They think they know what's happening inside their organization, you know. What it also does is like wow, I haven't seen you out here in a couple of years as a leader. It's good to see you out in the workplace. So it gives them a chance to be reintroduced, if you will, to the employees of the organization and to show them that it's important to them. So that's where I started. That's fascinating.

Speaker 2:

John, and I didn't think you were going to go. I didn't think you were going to go there, but I'm so glad you did. And again, like as you were talking, I started thinking back of some very high impact leaders from the past and it seemed like it was much more common leaders of some generations prior to be more engaged with the face of work, where work's happening. And something happened. You know we can blame the 1990s. It was just a crazy decade.

Speaker 2:

Whatever happened in the 90s to create the leaders that we have now? They got a little bit detached, I think maybe some of its technology, good intentions of efficiency for them, but the repercussion has been sub-optimization for the organization, organization. So it's like that's why you're. You know I love that. You got that systems thinking and systems thinking. Sometimes everything isn't working at a hundred percent to optimally let the system deliver. That's a good lesson for everybody. The uncommon leader podcast Again, you explore leadership from so many different perspectives and I want to just tap your brain, rolodex, your mind. And John, you're old enough to know what a Rolodex is like. I am.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, exactly, thanks Thanks.

Speaker 2:

Thanks. So for, yeah, people look that up. You don't know what a Rolodex is. You have to look that up on your own time. I'm not going to explain it, but uh, all the people just thinking like, wow, how lucky am I that I get to listen to this person as you're asking your questions, Like the way that I feel right now.

Speaker 1:

No, I appreciate that, felipe, you know so we got we're not quite at a hundred episodes yet on the Uncommon Leader podcast, but I bring leaders on who not necessarily have gone through a lean journey, necessarily, but they are leaders who have probably overcome and their stories are what are really powerful with regards to equipping, encouraging and inspiring other leaders to make change in their lives as well. And I think in the 90 plus episodes that I've done so far, there have only been two where I have been brought to tears. I've brought others to tears in terms of sharing some of their stories. So I always ask the same two questions Give me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today as a person or as a leader. And then I finish up with I'm going to give you a billboard you can put any message you want on it. Tell me what you're going to put on that billboard and why, and in between it's just a conversation about who they are as they've grown as a leader, and I've heard stories of individuals and people that I knew for years that have brought out I'm like I'm jaw dropping, losing a loved one stories of being terminated from jobs and how they've overcome that Stories of when they were bullied as a child and how it impacts still who they are today in terms of their confidence level, and I got to tell you it just at least to your point. I feel honored to be able to just hear some of that stories and that they would share those stories with me on the podcast not just with me, but with the listeners of the Uncommon Leader podcast, the stories themselves.

Speaker 1:

I want to be more aware and more present in those conversations at times and that's been the reflection for me is that A I don't like to go back and listen to my own podcast, listen to my own voice going through, so I don't always listen to them, so I'll have people tell me stories of what they heard on the podcast.

Speaker 1:

I'm like I don't remember that person really saying that, but that is really cool with it. That impacted you and I'm so happy. So you know if I'm going to grow on my podcast as well is that I want to be able to be more present for those conversations, that I listened to those individuals. But I got to tell you the most powerful thing for me is hearing those stories on the front end, and you know my methodology being referred to the greatest story ever told. That's what I'm searching for. I'm searching for stories of individuals who have impacted them so that they can recreate. So that there's that. Why again that? So that they can recreate that in their lives going forward, so that 25 years from now I don't know what the media will be, the next generation that goes forward. But how are they going to tell the story about someone who's made an impact on their life so that their, their name continues on?

Speaker 2:

I love that, john, and I super appreciate you bringing that forward. And I think you know a lot of people don't realize like how impactful it is, and even us as content creators, like we don't always realize like what what we do is gonna resonate with folks. I had a, a message come from a listener, a good friend of mine, and he was telling me that he'd watched one of the shows like five times and I was thinking like wow, then I was like all the shows, to watch that show five times, and you know, but it's like uh, it hits people at the right moment and it's has like an impact and it'll impact people differently because of their experiences.

Speaker 2:

So I want to do I want to do you a solid john, and give you a billboard in honor of the uncommon leader podcast. If you had a billboard, you had one thing and you can't tell me where to contact everyone. You're already going to the show notes and you're following John's podcast because it's hashtag listen to John. I want you to think about for you, john. Let's paint that billboard now for the audience as we close the show.

Speaker 1:

Well, again, as we close it out, I have appreciated the opportunity. I've loved the conversation. Frankly, I hope we get to do it again at some point in the future and it's something that stuck with me, and you won't be surprised that it is a hashtag, but it's raise the average and that's on the billboard. It gives people a chance to figure it out. So I mean, everybody's kind of heard the quote. You are the average of the five people that you hang around with the most, so being very selective in terms of the circle of people that you have around you is very important. But more importantly to me, with regards to raise the average in my journey back to the greatest story ever told or others, is that when you walk into the room with an individual, are you raising the average of that group yourself as you go forward? What are you doing intentionally to develop yourself so that you can continue to inspire, encourage and equip others on their journey? If it's something for me in terms of a task to ask folks to do, it really is to understand why they do their work For me. I want to make a difference with people who want to make a difference, doing something that makes a difference at a time that makes a difference, and right now we have a need for leaders in our homes, in our communities, in our workplaces, in our country. And if we're not raising the average of the room when we walk into it, then what are we doing to get better? So continue to grow.

Speaker 1:

If I had to give that advice to even young leaders, I was guilty of this coming out of college. I was done. I didn't read anymore. I'm like I did all my reading there. I'm not done.

Speaker 1:

And so I had a mentor give me a book 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership which I would suggest to anyone that is listening to this podcast and to me. That was the point that I said. It's time for me to start growing myself on my journey. I'm not done and we're not done until we use it all up at the end of our lives. So if you're going to be in the room, you might as well raise the average in the room that you're in. And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. If you found value in this episode, I encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues or anyone else who could benefit from the insights and inspiration we've shared. Also, if you have a moment, I'd greatly appreciate if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback not only helps us to improve, but it also helps others discover the podcast and join our growing community of uncommon leaders. Until next time, go and grow champions.