
The Uncommon Leader Podcast
Are you ready to break free from mediocrity and lead an extraordinary life? Join us on The Uncommon Leadership Podcast as we explore the power of intentionality in personal and professional growth. Our podcast features insightful interviews with inspiring leaders from all walks of life, sharing their stories of overcoming challenges and achieving greatness.
Discover practical strategies to:
- Think positively and cultivate a growth mindset
- Live a healthy and balanced lifestyle
- Build your faith and find inner strength
- Read more and expand your knowledge
- Stay strong in the face of adversity
- Work hard with purpose and passion
- Network effectively to build meaningful relationships
- Worry less and focus on what matters
- Love always and make a positive impact
In each episode, we'll dive into relevant leadership topics, share inspiring stories, and provide actionable steps you can take to elevate your life. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey, The Uncommon Leadership Podcast offers valuable insights and practical guidance to help you achieve your goals and live your best life.
The Uncommon Leader Podcast
How to Move Beyond Philanthropy and Into The Spiritual Side of Success in Business
Rich Sanders brings a remarkably unique perspective to the Uncommon Leader Podcast as both a pastor and successful entrepreneur. With his powerful motto—"The more we make, the more we give"—Sanders tackles the perceived tension between Christian values and business success, offering a refreshing framework that celebrates both hard work and generous giving as expressions of faith.
Throughout our conversation, Sanders draws from his experience as a military veteran, business owner, and spiritual leader to illuminate how capitalism and Christianity can not only coexist but thrive together when properly aligned. He introduces the concept of "philanthropic capitalism" but takes it deeper, arguing that without genuine love for others, corporate giving risks becoming just another marketing strategy.
One of the most memorable moments comes when Sanders shares a profound encounter with a homeless man who, despite having nothing by conventional standards, demonstrated extraordinary spiritual wealth through his complete trust in God's provision. This story challenges listeners to reconsider what true abundance really means in both business and life.
For Christian business leaders navigating workplace dynamics, Sanders offers practical wisdom on leading by example rather than overt evangelism. "People will know you by your love," he explains, suggesting that authentic faith naturally shines through our actions, decisions, and treatment of others without requiring explicit religious language.
Sanders also introduces his nonprofit initiative, Koinonia Mission, created to help Christians serve their communities outside traditional church frameworks. This project reflects his commitment to making faith-based service accessible to everyone, regardless of their relationship with organized religion.
Whether you're a business professional seeking to integrate your faith more authentically in your work or simply curious about the intersection of spiritual and financial success, this conversation offers thoughtful insights on building a purposeful career that honors both profit and people. How might your business decisions change if you approached them through the lens of "the more we make, the more we give"?
Connect with Rick: https://christiancapitalist.life/
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Whether it's an uncommon leader in business or an uncommon leader in the military, it's a core concept nonetheless and that's lead by example. So one of the ways that you can come to take your faith to work is by showing people you're a Christian, without ever mentioning the word Christ or Christian or church. People will know it. There's a great hymn out there from the old days called but they will know us by our love. Right, and people will know you by your love. I like to say in our congregation people can see the light of Christ in your heart if you just let it shine.
Speaker 2:Hey, uncommon Leaders, welcome back. This is the Uncommon Leader Podcast and I'm your host, john Gallagher. I've got a great guest for you today. Let me kind of go down through this list for a minute. So I've had pastors on the podcast before. I've had military officers on the podcast before. I've had business owners on the podcast before. I've had best-selling authors on the podcast before. I don't know if I've had anyone on the podcast that can claim all four of those titles, if you will. But I'm pretty excited today to introduce you all to Rich Sanders, the author of the Christian Capitalist. Rich, welcome to the Uncommon Leader podcast. How are you doing today?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great, John. Thank you so much for having me on the show today. I'm delighted to be here.
Speaker 2:Well, I know we're going to get a chance to talk about your book and that's really what it's all about, and I'm excited to dive into that and learn a little bit more about you. But before I do that, I'll give you the same first question I give all my first-time guests, and that's to tell me a story from your childhood that still impacts who you are today, as a leader or as a person.
Speaker 1:John, thank you. First of all, thank you for inviting me. I'm so glad to be here and I appreciate you asking that question. I just had a phone call earlier this morning where a young woman who's a sophomore in college was talking about how we are, who we meet, and we are the sum of our experiences. So I think that's a great kick career officer in the Air Force and the first place that our most memorable place that we lived in the time that he was in the Air Force, which started before I was born, was in Italy.
Speaker 1:So one of the ways that when we were stationed in Italy and I was a young guy, 10 years old, one of the ways that we used to kind of occupy our time was playground, you know, football, baseball, basketball, whatever, just like normal kids, even back in the United States only we're at a military base in Southern Italy on the heel of the boot. But the memory that sticks with me, and part of what I try and bring to the table as a pastor, is how much fun it was when we would have Bible study. So this is an airman who's maybe 19, 20 years old and he was leading fifth grade Bible study. So it was 10 boys and him.
Speaker 1:We would go to the church, we would have a conversation about whatever it was, then we'd go play football, and so I hang on to that, because so many people think of church as overbearing. It's stained glass, it's organs, it's very formal, it's pent up. We've been to churches before where when the kids sing they don't even clap. But what stuck with me from that is that church can be fun and talking about Jesus kind of fits into what you already do, just like I would normally play football seven days a week. But on that day it was right after we had studied scripture, and it stuck with me that you can have fun and integrate the gospel into your everyday life.
Speaker 2:Love that and I hadn't thought about that in a long time.
Speaker 2:You know and I know that you told me this before we hit the record button today that you're out in Phoenix, arizona or in Tempe, arizona to watch your son play baseball. So sports have stayed an important part, uh, and clearly you're pretty good at it. So that's, that's something from an athletic standpoint. If you've got a son that plays for the Cubs, I think that's awesome. Uh, I I haven't had a lot to cheer about in baseball for the last 30 years, being a pirate fan growing up. So that just is what it is with the Cubs and they're they take their baseball really serious out there in Arizona, even for spring training.
Speaker 1:Just a real quick note about that. That's right, we are in Phoenix for spring training. Our son is in the minor leagues with the Cubs, but the Pirates have somebody to cheer for. Paul Skeens went to LSU and our son went to South Carolina, so we have been in games where Skeens has pitched before and he's gotten a great start in the pros with the Pirates Rookie of the year and starting the All-Star game. There's hope for Pirates fans.
Speaker 2:I love that we always have that hope. Then eventually they trade him away to the Yankees or to the Cubs or to the Dodgers, whoever it is. We tend to be that great farm system that lives year-round. Either way, skeens has been phenomenal and fun to watch. You're exactly right. He's given us Pirate fans something to talk about, and I think he's going to be even better this year, as long as he can stay healthy. So we could talk baseball probably all the way through.
Speaker 2:But we're here to talk about your book, the Christian Capitalist, the Gospel of Hard Work and Generous Giving. So as I kind of read through and not the entire book, but a significant part of the book there was a picture that came to my mind and it talked about the tension between gaining wealth and our giving health as individuals, as leaders, and not just in the business owner side. But there was a word that you used in the back of the book that I just want to jump into right off the bat, and that's philanthropic capitalism, and I don't know if you made that word up or whatever it is, but what is philanthropic capitalism?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a great question. So philanthropic capitalism, I thought was going to be more of a popularized term by now. I did not create it, I found it in a series of articles from about 15 years ago. But basically, for your listeners, who are uncommon leaders, they are probably familiar with consumer products of one sort or another, whether it's apparel, whether it's consumer items in the grocery store. This is an increasing phenomenon, where businesses commit to a certain amount of profit for charitable use. There are some companies out there that say, hey, for every couple of shoes we sell, we give one to charity. There's a company out there that says we dedicate a certain amount to charity of our profits. There are certain companies, like grocery stores, that say here's the community impact we make with the funds that you give us when you come and shop in our stores. All of those are examples of philanthropic capitalism.
Speaker 1:The reason I mention it in the book, though, is that we find, in the world of the Christian capitalist, we find that philanthropic capitalism lacks one important thing, and it is the foundation of our religion, and that is love.
Speaker 1:Philanthropic capitalism without love is love, is, in many ways, pr and marketing right.
Speaker 1:Hey, look how good we are, look how we're supporting the community, but if you do it only for the purpose of making yourself look better and again, this is a trend that's really come on in the last 15 or 20 years there are companies want to show community impact, want to show positive impact on the community, and that's all good, but when it comes down to it you and I were talking about this a little bit before the podcast started when it comes down to it, even when you're speaking on behalf of an organization and many of the leaders who are listening to your podcast today are they've got a company 50, 100, 500, 5,000.
Speaker 1:But it all comes down to your individual relationship with God. And if you, as the leader, are creating the culture of your community that has this philanthropy, capitalism component, that's all well and good, but without love, it seems hollow. So so that's why we mentioned in the book. It's a great step in the right direction. I certainly want to encourage all the uncommon leaders who are listening today to keep doing it. But without that love of neighbor component, it seems from my, as you mentioned, very particular lens as entrepreneur, author, veteran and pastor it seems a little hollow without that love of neighbor.
Speaker 2:Rich. I love that and, again, you and I chatted offline right before that. I just got the chance over the past couple of days to spend really two days with a group of Christian business leaders talking about that very specific topic and what I kind of refer to it as moving from key performance indicators like revenue and profit and margin and customer service, which are all very important to the success I know you talk about this in your book as well to kingdom performance indicators and the impact we're having on our employees, our communities in the local church and, frankly, all the way out through the world. And that's where that tension exists Without love, in that there's oftentimes a I'll use this term as strong to be a fear of communicating that as well.
Speaker 2:So, in the biblical side, don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing in terms of giving and don't be a braggart about that. But if we don't measure kingdom impact, how are we going to achieve kingdom impact? So you have to have a way to measure that. You talk about that one pair of socks for Bomba for everyone they sell, they give one away. Or organizations that give money for digging wells in communities that don't have clean drinking water, so many different things that are having kingdom impact that I believe, because of that tension that exists that they're afraid to talk about it is that we don't hear those stories and then more of those stories don't come about. So I'm so glad your book talks about some of those stories and you share so many different scriptural references as well as to what that means inside of us as Christians to give and how important it is.
Speaker 1:What's hard, john?
Speaker 1:There is a lot of tension in it.
Speaker 1:I mean, listen, one of the reasons I wrote this book is that when my job in the Episcopal Church, in our liturgy, my job, is to read the gospel, we have lay readers who read the other parts of the scriptures for a particular service. But in the gospel, when I have in my congregation folks who are wealth advisors or CPAs or financial advisors, folks who are wealthy by making other people wealthy, and I read the gospel that says Jesus told us that it's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. Or when he tells the rich young ruler hey, listen, there's only one other thing you need to do to inherit the kingdom, and that's sell everything you have and give it to the poor, and the rich man goes away sad because he has many things. I can see the look on the faces of the members of my congregation, and so the book is trying to help us wrestle with those tensions. They're all throughout the scripture and they're all throughout daily life.
Speaker 2:Love that, so let's jump right there. And it's one thing that we want to name the title Christian Capitalist. What does it mean to you, then, to be a Christian Capitalist?
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm so glad you asked. It means that, and this is why it's the subtitle. It means that, and this is why it's the subtitle it means that we work hard and give generously to the poor and needy, in the name of Jesus Christ. And, in fact, if there's one thing that if your listeners take away from today, I would like them to remember that the motto of the Christian capitalist is the more we make, the more we give.
Speaker 1:Profit on its own is, and the accumulation of profit for no other purpose is simply another way of expressing greed right for no other purpose is simply another way of expressing greed right. But accumulation of profit to then benefit your neighbor, your poor and needy neighbor in particular, to love them, is exactly what God had in mind for us when he sent us Jesus to say here's what you need to do Love God above all else. Love your neighbor, as I have loved you. Well, if you're a rich guy and you're surrounded by poor people and you don't give to them, or you're a rich guy and you're surrounded by poor people and you don't give to them, or you're a rich woman and you have all these, you know, have all these material possessions, but see people laying in the street without clothing or food or shelter. That's.
Speaker 2:you're missing the concept no-transcript the money to be able to carry out the mission. And so, as a Christian capitalist, we've got to be to bear fruit back into the Bible again, to bear fruit in the work that we do so that we can help others and both prosper ourselves but also help others. Name Jesus, and again, love is one of those perfect words that can be done.
Speaker 1:I agree with the nun who told you that so many years ago, before you know, as a business owner, you've got to have the ability, as you mentioned earlier. It's an important word. You've got to have sustainability. But once you have your house in order whether it's your individual house or your corporate house once you have your house in order, then the question is what do we want to do with it? Earlier this morning I spoke with a young woman. We're interviewing her to be an intern for our Christian Capitalist Project this summer and she's a sophomore in college, so maybe 19, maybe 20 years old. Pretty wise coming from a person of this age. She said I really love what you're doing because one day I want to own my own business and I want to make enough money to start a nonprofit. Isn't that wonderful. Someone can. As a business owner, someone can have that kind of vision even at that young age. Someone can have that kind of vision even at that young age. There's a business incubator. You probably saw on my bio.
Speaker 1:I taught healthcare law at Emory University for 20 years and so I had a new group of students come through every year and I just loved working with them Along the way. Emory set up a business incubator to help kids, students, get their business kind of proposals in mind and really launch things. I had a great discussion with the executive director there a couple of years ago and I don't think this is specific to Emory. I think this is specific to this next generation behind you and me. I said I'm just thrilled, executive director, that this place is full. All these people are coming here to learn how to start businesses and it's just, it's fantastic for capitalism, right?
Speaker 1:I'm an ardent stride and supporter of free enterprise. He's like, yeah, but it's interesting, nine out of 10 are here to start some kind of social impact nonprofit. Isn't that interesting? Yes, so I think this gets back to kind of one of the core concepts of the Christian capitalist. We are made in God's image. God made us in his image during the creation and we know a couple of things about God. The first is he worked very hard, right, he built the entire universe and earth in six days and he built us, and that he gives so hard work and generous giving are part of who we are as humans. You know we're unique among all the animals in creation and so that notion of wanting to start a business purely for the purpose of benefiting others is wonderful, but, like you said, no profit, no mission. Right, they got to come together.
Speaker 2:Hey listeners, I want to take a quick moment to share something special with you. Many of the topics and discussions we have on this podcast are areas where I provide coaching and consulting services for individuals and organizations. If you've been inspired by our conversation and are seeking a catalyst for change in your own life or within your team, I invite you to visit coachjohngallaghercom forward slash free call to sign up for a free coaching call with me. It's an opportunity for us to connect, discuss your unique challenges and explore how coaching or consulting can benefit you and your team. Okay, let's get back to the show.
Speaker 2:So I mean again, as you say, that I try not to think of the next one, but it's so critical that generation is coming up and they've got. I don't know which gen they are, it doesn't matter but, as you said, the generation behind us. I can't keep track of all the Ys and Zs and whatever they are, but they have a desire to give back, they have a real passion for social responsibility and yet sometimes what's missed is that importance. On the side of if there's no money, we have to teach them to run those nonprofits. We teach them to run those churches. By the way, this is coming from a guy with business, like a business Right, okay, that if you want that to be sustainable, if you want it to have the kingdom in back that you really have, then you need to utilize some fundamental business principles that are there.
Speaker 2:So I think that's one of the barriers that exists in that space is to make sure they're learning that as well. They get the liberal arts side of the work that they want to do and have an impact and they miss the business side of. Well, how do I make sure I'm solvent and can make that happen? You know another side of that is Christian. What are some of the other? Again another title that I missed when you just told me, as a professor, but as a pastor and as a business owner, and so then you're meeting with your congregation well, the people in your congregation, what are some of the other misconceptions or barriers that they run into about the relationship between Christianity and capitalism?
Speaker 1:It was a great question, I'll tell you. Getting back to the question you asked me earlier about philanthropic capitalism, you know, in talking either as a lawyer or as a professor and talking with folks who want to start a business, the first question I always ask is what is the mission? You know, what are you starting this business for? There's a great book out there called Start With why, right? So what are you trying to do? And the short answer is if you're starting a nonprofit and you want to have some kind of charitable effort, or if you're starting a business, either way, they have to be sustainable. The question is does one ultimately have no profit, so there are no shareholders to give a dividend to? Or do you have shareholders but still then offer that benefit to your neighbors?
Speaker 1:Our concept as the Christian capitalist is that you can do both. It is easy, starting with people who have committed their lives to God, who have said I want to give up everything I have to God and serve only him, and I'm going to enter a religious order and become a nun, just like that woman at the hospital that you worked with back in Chicago, right? But? But you can have the same level of commitment to God as a small business owner or an executive in business. It's just a different way to worship and it's a different way to glorify him, and so that's one of the biggest misconceptions, you know. We start with this concept of well, I can only worship and glorify God if I fully commit to the church, if I fully commit to religion, if I become a nun or a monk or, you know, pastor or priest. Otherwise, I'm just a business person and the best I can do is put something in the plate when it comes by or, these days, make my electronic contribution. And I just, I really want to discourage folks from that kind of mindset. When we work, we glorify God, and when we give, we glorify God. And that includes small business owners, like you just met with with your conference. That includes your listeners. Everybody can have the same kind of role of of serving and glorifying him, regardless of what kind of business they have, as long as they're helping others through that business. And that can be after a very successful year or a very successful string of years where folks are putting money in their 401ks, whether they're buying a new house or buying a new car or saving for their kid's college. All of those things are consistent with being a good Christian, as long as the end result is your love and your neighbor.
Speaker 1:John Wesley I had a great way of putting this because, again, you and I, one of the words we've been talking about a lot today is tension. There is some tension in the message here. And Wesley, back in 1750, john, I mean, so this is not a new concept, but he had a great way of describing it in three kind of instructions to his congregation. In his sermon on money, he said earn all you can. Now, that's, that's fantastic. Right, that's like straight out of wall street. You and I are guys from the 80s. Right, that's, that's gordon gecko.
Speaker 1:Talk, go, earn all you can. But then he throws everybody a pause and and the modern word we would say is sustainability, right, earn all you can, but then save all you can. Be a good steward of everything that you earn, and to me, for your listeners, that means get out of right. I'm starting to sound a little like Dave Ramsey now, but I'm not. I'm not a financial advisor among all the careers that I've had, but it's you know. Get out of debt, be sustainable, save for yourself for the future, for when you're old and need healthcare cared for. Save for your kids, if you got them, so they can go to school wherever they choose in their college and have good savings and investments as part of your diversified portfolio.
Speaker 1:That's all good, but then Wesley said the third thing earn all you can, save all you can, give all you can. And so one of the things I love to talk to accountants about in particular, and financial advisors is that last part. How exactly do you save all you can and then give all you can? There's some tension in that, isn't there Absolutely, and I think the answer is that when? And that's why our motto is the more we make, the more we give, because if you give it all away, then you're not sustainable and you're becoming a burden on your neighbor, right? So you have to remain somehow solvent and in many cases, profitable, wealthy even. But you got to give, you know, and the more you make, the more you give. That's kind of the core concept.
Speaker 2:I'd love that again. And that last piece so earn it, save it absolutely, invest it, be wise stewards of those resources that you were given and then give back. I mean again, there's so many great stories, the parables of the talents or the menas. I mean all those different stories inside the Bible that provide us phenomenal guidance on how we should be utilizing the gifts that we've been given. And that's another side of it. I think, too, is that if you were given the gift of being a great leader and a great business person and go drive into that, don't think that you have to get back in the full-time ministry to actually serve. We talked about this weekend with those business leaders that that's the Sunday. If you will, one hour that you get inside a church versus the 40 hours minimum that you get a chance to minister to your organization through their work can be really powerful. You have so much more time to have an impact on them inside of that space if we can get there.
Speaker 1:And this is where, 500 years ago, martin Luther was really the first that I'm aware of, the first to kind of take the notion of a calling or a vocation and take it outside the church. Because back during the Reformation, literally 500 years ago, he was telling people listen, if you're a cobbler, if you're a farmer, if you're a blacksmith, you're still glorifying God from your work. You don't have to go be a monk, you just got to have him in your heart when they're at your desk or your bench or your plow. And I just love that concept because that, to me, broadens out the way that we can serve God, so that every single person, including and especially the folks who are listening today every single person can glorify God through their work.
Speaker 2:Love that. Do you have a favorite story from the book that you wrote? I mean it's full of stories over there, Anything that's a favorite story from the book that you wrote. I mean it's full of stories over there, Anything that's a favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got to tell you the first one that jumped to mind, because there are a few stories in there. The first one that jumps to mind is when I was going through initial training, which our church is called Discernment Discernment of whether seminary and becoming a pastor was the right thing for me. The bishop in Atlanta sent a group of us 20 people down to this part of Atlanta, right near the state capitol, that had a big park that was kind of renowned for having homeless and said go spend the day at that park and talk to the homeless. So my buddy Peter and I are down there and we're wandering around and we had taken food with us to go give to the homeless. Right, I mean, we're affluent guys from different part of Atlanta, we're heading down, we're going to go help the homeless, and so we run into this dude and had a terrific conversation with him.
Speaker 1:John, imagine it's a nice sunny day in October. He's laying in the grass in a park on a blue sky day. State Capitol is right here, right. And here come these. He's African in the grass in a park on a blue sky day. State Capitol is right here, right. And here come these. He's African American. Here come, these white guys, and we got a bunch of food. We're like, hey, man, we just started talking with him and once we did, we realized how completely misguided we were in preconceived notions we had of what it means to be rich, and so this is why it's one of my favorites in the stories in the book.
Speaker 1:This dude's got rags on and as we're talking to him he's laying in the grass. He's got a big kind of pouch beside him, what we would call a soft side cooler with a strap on it right. And I'm like well, where do you live? And he's like right over there, under that bridge. And he points to what in Atlanta is called the connector Interstate. 75 and 85 are combined as they go through downtown. I live right over there. God takes care of me. When it rains. I go under the bridge.
Speaker 1:On a sunny day, I lay out here in the grass and we're like well, man, can we give you some food? We brought some with us. He's like guys, give it to someone who needs it. And and he pats the bag next to him and then opens it up and it's full of sandwiches that other people have given to him. He's like I got everything I need. I got cover for me. I got this food right here. You give that food to someone else who needs it. God takes care of me and I have everything I need. I just love him and the way that he protects me. Sometimes I get scared when there's a thunderstorm or there's some bully running around, but I got everything I need and God's looking out for me and I just love that.
Speaker 1:Because Jesus tells us time and time again in scripture don't worry, god's going to take care of you. Look at the sparrows over there, look at those birds. He takes care of them. How much more will he take care of you because he loves you? And so the devoutness of that homeless man, the faith and the depth of his commitment to god was just awe-inspiring. I just love that. And it gets back to what the notion of what it means to be rich is. I mean, I'm staying at a fancy hotel in phoenix visiting our son who plays minor league baseball. We came from birmingham visiting our older son who's at the university of alabama. We're heading to Tuscaloosa tomorrow to visit our daughter for her sorority parents weekend. We're affluent. I'm looking behind you at these beautiful bookshelves and the things you have behind you. You're affluent compared to the guy laying in the park with a satchel full of sandwiches, and yet he is as rich as any of us because of the commitment that he has to the kingdom of heaven. I just love it.
Speaker 2:Love that story, love that, that tension that exists within us and it's just an awakening for us again drives us back to scripture. Let's put it on the lower shelf for folks Rich. I mean, what's some practical advice that you have for Christians who would really like to align their financial perspective with their faith?
Speaker 1:their financial perspective with their faith. I'm so glad you asked, John, Part of the I don't know what's the right way to say it Tension is probably a great word Part of the tension that we see here in Christians trying to take their faith into the workplace. Like you said, low level is you got to do it in an HR compliant manner, right? You can't go giving your testimony to folks. You can't go leaving Bibles on everybody's desk, especially given the size of the company. Many of your listeners are in or they're going to be folks who say, hey, wait a second. This isn't right. I feel like it's too much in my face. And then you're going to have a meeting with HR and that's appropriate. That's appropriate because people are coming there to work, not to worship. You're coming there to work and to worship, and so I think this is one of the core concepts.
Speaker 1:Whether it's an uncommon leader in business or an uncommon leader in the military, it's a core concept nonetheless, and that's lead by example. So one of the ways that you can come to take your faith to work is by showing people you're a Christian, without ever mentioning the word Christ or Christian or church. People will know it. There's a great hymn out there from the old days, called they will know us by our love. Right, and people will know you by your love. I like to say in our congregation, people can see the light of Christ in your heart if you just let it shine, and that doesn't mean beating them over the head with it. It doesn't mean saying, hey, everybody, let's get together and pray, Although that may be one day appropriate once you determine how people are thinking and believing, who are workers with you, believing who are workers with you. But it's really ultimately lead by example to me that, regardless of your listeners are uncommon leaders, regardless of what kind of business they're in or what level of that business they are, everybody can exhibit leadership in that regard.
Speaker 2:Rich, love that it can be that simple and it can be that difficult. I'd love to introduce you to another gentleman I met this week, by the way, who was another attorney, not-for-profit attorney, who defends folks in the workplace who also choose their faith, and he says we've got more freedom than we believe. Having said that, I know that there are many individuals who are not Christians who believe that the hypocrisy of Christians exists and that if we're not living by the example that God talked about inside the entire Bible, that Jesus modeled with his behaviors and love, that we will be seen as those individuals that just you know are Bible thumpers that really don't care about me. We've got to be very aware of that and I love the idea of leading, but starting off with leading by example.
Speaker 2:Rich, I could keep going a long time, forever and ever. I know you probably got a baseball game to go to and I'm not trying to jump you off the phone, but I do want to honor your time. A couple more questions. How do folks stay or get in touch with you, rich, and learn more about the Christian Capitalist and about you?
Speaker 1:So we found what I thought was a relatively new website address, I guess domain. So our website is called christiancapitalistlife, which is ultimately the goal that we have. Right, we want folks to be good Christians and be good capitalists. And, by the way, there's tension in that. I mean, there are people out there when this is one of the reasons I gave it this controversial title there are people out there in America, maybe even some who are listening to your podcast right now who have a negative view of Christians because they are hypocritical and they don't do what they say and they don't act like they're followers of Jesus. There are sure, a lot of people maybe not who listen to your podcast because it's so business focused, but there are a whole lot of people who hear the word capitalist and think greed, exploitation and negative right. So I gave it this controversial title because I want folks to at least understand from my perspective, that Christianity and capitalism are not at odds, that they can completely be fit together and thrive together when they're for the benefit of the poor and needy.
Speaker 1:So, christiancapitalistlife the book is there. We have lots of articles I post five days a week on social media and there's links to our social media there. We're on all the channels Facebook, instagram, linkedin and, in particular, for those of you listeners who are financial advisors or financial professionals, I focus my video commentary on LinkedIn in that direction, because I think, about kingdom impact and kingdom performance indicators, that the message of hard work and generous giving is kind of exponentially grown into the kingdom. When I'm talking to financial advisors about hey, you know, somebody just came to me and said they've inherited a million dollars, what do I tell them? And I say, save some, give some, right, I mean, you got to, you got to hand things over when you get a windfall like that.
Speaker 1:So, and and then, of course, we we also have Rebecca and I started. My wife Rebecca and I, who's been with me all along the way, started a nonprofit that's just getting started. We don't even have our website yet, but you'll find links to there. It's called Koinonia Mission and for just the reason that you mentioned, john, that so many Christians who are not inclined to go to church because church has such a negative connotation to them, still want a way to love their neighbor and do the things that Jesus asked us to do, koinonia Mission is going to be set to assist Christians in communities to come together and serve the poor and needy outside of a church framework, and so that'll be koinoniamissionlife. There'll be a link to that on the Christian Catholic stuff. Awesome, I will make sure to put a link to that on the Christian Capitalist stuff Awesome.
Speaker 2:I will make sure to put a link in the show notes for folks to get to Rich. What a blessing it's been to have the opportunity to meet you, to chat with you today. I wish you the best going forward. I'm going to finish and give you the last word with the same question that I always use, and that's I'm going to give you a billboard and put it anywhere you want to. What's the message that you put on that billboard and why do you put it on there?
Speaker 1:I love it, john, thank you. The message is the Christian capitalist the more we make, the more we give, and that's because, that's what God's called us to do in business Excellent.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Rich. I wish you the best.
Speaker 1:Thank you, john, it's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 2:And that wraps up another episode of the Uncommon Leader Podcast. Thanks for tuning in today. If you found value in this episode, I encourage you to share it with your friends, colleagues or anyone else who could benefit from the insights and inspiration we've shared. Also, if you have a moment, I'd greatly appreciate if you could leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback not only helps us to improve, but it also helps others discover the podcast and join our growing community of uncommon leaders. Until next time, go and grow champions.