4 - Kim Chaney - Ego & Responsibility, Coaching v Consulting, Teaching Moments

Hey leaders. Welcome back to the Uncommon leader podcast. Your guest  for today's episode is Kim Chaney. If you read his LinkedIn profile, it talks about being an experienced teacher with a demonstrated history of working in the management consulting industry.

Kim Chaney is a friend of mine,  someone I've worked with for over 15 years and someone who's grown into an uncommon leader. Some of the things that I'm most proud of Kim right now is his faith journey walk  and being a proud grandpa to his grandchildren. 

I think you're going to love the stories that he shares, including how he got his nickname -  'Doc' Chaney - , differences in consulting and coaching, knowing your chickens, and how to understand that you can't miss opportunities to teach!

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Transcript

John 0:26

Hey leaders. Welcome back to the uncommon leader podcast. I'm glad you're with me today. I'm excited to introduce the guest for today's episode, Kim Chaney. If you read his LinkedIn profile, it talks about being an experienced teacher with a demonstrated history of working in the management consulting industry. I see Kim Chaney as a friend of mine, someone I've worked with for over 15 years and someone who's grown into an uncommon leader. I see some of the things that I'm most proud of Kim right now is just walk on his faith journey and becoming a proud grandpa to many. I think you're going to love the stories that he shares today, including how we get his nickname,'Doc' Chaney, some of the differences in consulting and coaching. And how do you understand that you can't miss the opportunities to teach? So let's get started with Kim..

1:20

Hi Kim Chaney. Hope you're having a great day today. Thanks for being a part of the uncommon leader podcast. How are you? Good, john. Good. Thanks for, thanks for being here and spending some time with us. As we talk to our audience about, you know, what an uncommon leader you are. And I look forward to hearing some of your stories as we go through this, but, but how you can add value to others through this conversation. And I started each of the podcast off really with my guests with a similar question, if you will. And that's to really go back in time a little bit, if you could share with me a story of your youth or going back in time a little bit, that might still impact kind of who you are today, both as a person who has a. Well, first of all, that's a great question. And I always say that if you don't have an answer, tell somebody it's a great question. I think it's your turn to think about it, right? Yeah. I think you're telling me that one. That might be a tip. We talk about you telling me that one, they this, this story that comes to my mind is one as back in high school. And my freshman year, I was. Trying out for the basketball team. And as you go up to high school, at least in our group had multiple schools, junior highs that fed it. And so there were more players in positions and I remember being cut, not making the grade and how that bothered me and. After I didn't, after I got cut, I was asked by the coach if I would be willing to be a manager. And that really bothered me, I guess, you know, I look back now and know that was my ego that got bruised because you know, it didn't live up to whatever some standard. And I still took the position because I was too young to work and, and I liked a lot of the guys on the team. And so once I did, the coach asked me if I'd be a trainer and a trainer's job is a little different than a manager. They, the trainer gets to tape up all the ankles and elbows and the different things that the players need done before the games or before practice. And I ended up doing that and I really liked it. Later, not always at the time, but I, I enjoy doing it because of relationships with the players. Appreciate the appreciation knowing that I was still contributing by keeping those guys on the board floor. And it made, it made a difference. And I don't, I'm not, you know, I don't, I don't know. Oh, sure. Wasn't a doctor or anything. And yet it was kind of funny because. The players, whoever I worked with ended up kind of nickname in the doc. I love that. And doc Jamie. Yeah. And, and matter of fact from time to time, if I run into a old high school alumnus, and this is 50 years later some of them still refer to me as. Doc, so that's, that's, that's a story that came up, rise up in my consciousness when you asked that. And well, I love that story there's oh, goodness gracious. There's so much there. Not some, we won't talk about your basketball skills and whatever those are, but you just, you just revealed your wisdom as well, or your age as you talk about how long ago that was and the alumni that you had. And now I'm sure you have plenty of those stories if you really sat down to remember those. But I think again, when you think about talking to our audience and sharing this story is that it can have an impact. I mean, the takeaway I have in it is such that, you know, you have an opportunity you get to respond in a certain way when something doesn't go the way you think or want it to go. And while you may not have been happy about it at the time you took another opportunity, you made a choice to do that, and you actually found yourself being pretty good. You were able to build relationships. You may not have been able to build as a result of it and even got a good nickname out of it. They came through old doc Cheney comes out as well. So I know it's not always easy to share that story and maybe I'll have a couple more good questions as we go through that today. But Kim, as I touched on in the introduction, you know, you've been both a friend, a coworker, a mentor of mine in many ways, you know, along the journey we've, we've worked together. In the past really 15 years as we go through it and had a positive impact on many people as you look. And I want to, I want to talk to you a little bit about that from your journey, becoming a mentor to many, including new leaders and organizations, or you know, your, your grandchildren as they've started to grow. And it takes a special leader, an uncommon leader to be able to humble themselves and to do some of those things, to develop others. And I know it's not easy. So this is gonna be like a two-part question first, when you think about the challenges that, you know, leaders face today in developing others into roles as either a mentor or as a supervisor, what have you seen as some of the biggest challenges you faced in developing others or mentoring others? John. The first thing that comes to me is this word responsibility, responsibility for those I'm coaching or I'm mentoring or whatever term that we would use the responsibility. The problem, the responsibility of relationships, the responsibility of even in a consulting role or, or a coaching role. And the two of those in my opinion are totally different. So many times people seek a solution to a problem and. What they're trying to do is sometimes write a check to get the responsibility off of them. And you got to watch that in any situation. I think a person's ego never wants to be wrong and taking responsibility may mean some temporary failures. As we learn our way to a solution. And that's, that's part of the challenge. And I, it goes back to also when you're mentoring somebody, keeping them responsible and you, me responsible to my role when I get over what I call over my 100. Over my role and into their lane, as they become successful, are they successful or was I successful? And how will that help them with the next opportunity that rises? If I'm too far out, not as much as it could have been. Kim. I love that. So if I, if I listened to it, especially again, many, many young leaders, especially today, no doubt about it. I love that, you know, that the bear love is a challenging word for this, but ego does get in the way and not wanting to be wrong, or sometimes even not wanting to accept guidance from someone else. And when you can let your ego down and say, Hey, I don't need to be right. And secondly, I do need help in this situation. That can be pretty powerful. And then the second word and that the word comes loudly through that I heard is this responsibility and that as a mentee or as someone being coached, you still have the responsibility to get the results in your lane. And as the mentor, you also have responsibility to, to step away when you have. Done your part inside of that, asking the right questions, asking good questions, asking tough questions. But also being direct when you need to. So I can see, you know, those two big things, responsibility and ego being two barriers. And I'm going to come back. You mentioned this difference in the coach and the consultant. I want to come back to that here in a minute, but when you think about those two pieces, ego, and responsibility, Can you, can you remember a time where you were coaching someone and how, or, or maybe again, maybe it's time you were being coached and on the other end, but how you helped someone to overcome that ego in their mind or where the responsibility piece that, that ended up working out well for them? I the story that comes to my mind is. Gentlemen. Great, great guy. And as I was coaching in a team activity, one of the things I was responsible for was developing other leaders to sit in that role. And I gave him an opportunity to go and coach the team as I was in the, sort of in the back of the room. And I was watching him. Yeah. One of the things that we sometimes do as people is that we can become too mechanical. We remember a process or a way a certain person did something and it's it's, they said it's maybe not the right tool at the right time. And he was going through this. And then I remember maybe wanting to jump in and instead we call it a break. It was about time for a good break. I remember going out into the hallway, privately with him. And I referred to a story that I learned in Italy and it was called, know your chickens and in Italy, there's a lot of free range chickens, even in town. And it's important. Especially in anywhere, but at least in Italy, whatever you do, you never want to take one of your naked neighbors, chickens by accident. Those that's not a good thing. And they use that cliche. That was a normal cliche that they used in Italy when I was over there. And it really resonated that you have to know your chickens the same way he reflected. Oh, yeah, I know who that guy is. And like I'm putting them on the spot. And one of the weakest areas that he, that that team member was rather than facilitating and trying to draw from the strengths, he'd tried to draw from a weaknessa and so I still remember, you know, that element and I could have jumped in at the thing at the moment. And I thought it was too important of a teaching moment to bypass. You know, when I talk about ego responsibility, one of the things that I learned is to allow my ego to sit in on my corner at my shoulder at times and tell my ego, let my essence or whatever. Tell my ego it's okay. Not to control. It's okay. Ego. As long as we learn. And that was one little caveat that helped me. Well, again, I'd say, listen, I mean, working with you so long and you know, we, you, we develop as, as leaders as we grow these isms. And I know, I remember that. No, your chickens, Kim Cheney story. And I love that. And I appreciate the, the story about knowing your chickens, but ultimately in terms of how you coach that individual in a team activity. One is that I heard was to be yourself and not try to be somebody else as a piece of advice as well, to not miss those teaching moments. While you may have to wait a little bit for the right timing on that, don't miss those teaching moments and be direct with them, even if. Call a break right in the middle or close to the middle of something and getting ready for it. And then finally, again, drawing from strength and not from weakness as you, as you work with individuals. But I, I can, I love that as a story as being successful. Thanks for sharing on that. I want to come back. You had mentioned something pretty specific. You said you, you felt in coaching and you were doing some coaching with that person there, but there's a big difference between coaching and consultants. As, as leaders here that, what, w what do you see as the main differences in coaching and consulting you when you consult? The powerful part is if you can stay in a coaching mode or model, because that helps keep responsibility where it belongs so many times in industry. People hired a consultant, trying to hire an answer. Not necessarily they want to get to the point, give me the solution. We know that you're going to come and we are paying you to write the answer for us, and then we'll go take care of it. Those are hard models I believe to have long-term success. Because the concern, the element of responsibility is one and done, and one and dones, not what I believe that we need as in our industry, in our country. I think it's an element that we have to grow and learn from others to build upon them. Mountain so that we can keep building up and up and not erode away. That's my thoughts about, so that know that, that consulting and again, oftentimes we and I, sometimes I like to own it. I mean, in my role, I act as both consultant and coach too many times it can be seen as consultant or coach. And there's to your point, there's a big difference, especially in that The attitude at which you hire one of those roles, the consultant is there to just tell me and some people think they're just there to tell me the answer to your point, that if the consultant is seen like that, the chances of long-term success are really not there, that the opportunity to coach someone to learn, to solve that problem on their own, be with them on the journey, walk through and take responsibility with them on that. But to get them to ask the right questions, to get to the answers. Very important. Thanks. Thanks for talking about that as difference. Okay. Couple more questions, Ken. This has been pretty cool and I think, and we got some great stuff for our listeners. John one that I know has been important to you a little bit different from the coaching and consulting or maybe not, but I'm a, I'm a reader. I know you're a reader. Tell me what the top three books on your bookshelf that you've read before, or that you've used. Ooh. Well, I'd like to say the Bible definitely on one that I read daily more. So all, you know, what I'm saying is my life went on. I became a reader of it. Every day while I can also say I wish I applied it more every day. You know, the reading is one thing. The practicality is, is another because we are human. I know I've read with my grandchildren. I haven't read with them, but as a man, think it is a book that usually. I go through and talk about with my grandchildren. I call that it's like marinading your mind. The more that you marinade your mind with good thoughts, positive thoughts. The more that you marinade your mind with the right thing to do versus easy thing to do, the more you marinade your mind in those types of ways, the more your behavior will follow. And I think that's a critical, critical part, what you want in your mind. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I, and the other, the other book that comes to my mind is Woodenon leadership. A lot of people would know it. No, this as a fact John wooden wouldn't in his coaching, never talked about winning. Had never mentioned to his players about winning. He worked with them to be the best they could be in the process as an individual and as a team, believing that if they are winning well, we'll come. It. That's what follows for people who have talent work that talent to maximum performance and work on it as a process, whether it's a play being run. Defensive scheme to be handled all of those and, and John wooden work on the development of others and their values, ethics and where they came in life. As much as he worked on passing and dribbling and those supplies Whole person development for him as well. It wasn't just a basketball player that existed with that whole person. If he's judged on success from a wind standpoint, he did pretty good, but I believe that most of those who would talk of him both have read his books as well as those he coached with. It was more about how you helped him to be a man. That's so cool. Thank you for sharing those three. And I think again, our audience would find value in all those as well. And it sounds like you may be a little bit hard on yourself, on the Bible, because that is a process that, you know, in, in a faith journey that, that I have as well, I've got to work on it every day and be aware in that. And this has been pretty cool the conversation and I can expect, you know, that might be like a Johnny Carson moment in the future that I have you on here a few more times. To talk through it with you, but I'm going to give you the last word for today And it's a, it's a dinner question that I asked many of my readers and I teed it up with you just or many of my listeners, excuse me. When I teed it up with you just a little bit, but you've got a billboard at top of the escalator in the Atlanta airport. Okay. And millions of people are gonna see it today, and you get them say on their whatever message you want to put on that billboard for people. What is, what do you put on that billboard? Last word? Hmm, giving. I would say that faith wise God is love night. And so I guess I would say this giving love is what people remember. Giving love is what people remember. Powerful, caring. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. I appreciate your words today. I appreciate you. And I appreciate you investing the time to share with our listeners about part of your uncommon leadership journey. So thank you very much. Thank you, John. Wow. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Kim Chaney. I know, I sure did. I look back on some of the things that we did together in business and in consulting and working together. And I just love the stories that he shares, and I love to use some of the Chaneyisms that exist, like know your chickens and some of you listening whoknow Kim Chaney, you know exactly what I'm talking about with Some of those stories, if you enjoyed today's episode, I certainly would appreciate it. If you'd share it with a friend who may benefit from hearing a message like this, also, you can go out onto my website, growing champions.net/podcast, and subscribe using your favorite platform so that you received on a regular basis. when it comes out, you can also send me an email. John@growingchampions.net to let me know other topics, you'd like to hear on the podcast, or if you'd be interested, in being a guest. Until next time go and grow champions.