15 - John Gallagher - On Mentors, Uncommon, Mission, Lean, "Afflicting the comforted" and more

Welcome back Uncommon Leader Podcast Nation. Each week, I interview guests --Uncommon leaders --  from various walks of life and various points on their leadership journey. This week I flipped the script just a little bit, and I'm sharing an excerpt from a recent lean blog post podcast where I was interviewed by Lean Blog podcast host, Mark Graban. He chatted with me about many things on my leadership journey, including:

•  Where and when did my Lean (management system based upon the Toyota Production system) journey begin
• Who have been mentors in my career
•  Different points on my diverse career path
• The genesis of the Uncommon Leader podcast
• The mission behind Growing Champions, the coaching & consulting business I recently started
• And more...

 So I think you're really going to enjoy this podcast. While this interview is excerpts from the original interview, you can listen to the unedited episode, including the full transcript,  on Mark Graban's podcast feed by clicking here.  A special thanks for Mark for allowing me to re-purpose this podcast.  For more on mark Graban, visit his website here.

Thanks for listening.   

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Until next time, Go and Grow Champions!!

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Transcript

0:26

Welcome back uncommon leader podcast nation. Each week. I interview guests uncommon leaders from various walks of life and various points on their leadership journey. This week I flipped the script just a little bit, and I'm sharing an excerpt from a recent lean blog post podcast. Hosted by mark Graban. Mark interviewed me and chatted with me about many things on my leadership journey, such as these things, where did my lean origin come from, who have been mentors in my career a little bit about my career path that I've chosen as well. The Genesis of the uncommon leader podcast and the mission behind growing champions, which I think was really fun to share. And a definition of uncommon when he asked me about that. I thought that was a really good question So I think you're going to enjoy this podcast. I think you're going to enjoy hearing a little bit from Marcus. He questions me on a little bit of my on-command journey, and I hope that you'll follow mark@theendofthispodcastatmarkgraban.com, where you can find the full episode of this interview. I know that you'll enjoy the whole thing so let's get started. Thanks for. What's your lean origin story? Like where did where, and when. Did you first get exposed to this? I like this question. It's something I had thought about as I listened through your podcasts. And it feels funny to say it, but it goes back almost 25 years, which doesn't seem quite possible, but I was an industrial engineer or an industrial, I don't know even what my title was, continuous improvement engineer or something like that. And we were launching on this thing called lean and like many other. I was pretty skeptical. I was like, I started, I was, I was out of college for a few years, but had been trained with a manufacturing company that had been in the traditional MRP world and batching Q and that's really all that I knew at the time when we started throwing out these terms, it really was interesting. So to have a sense, they come in. Really to our factory for the first time and tell us how things need to change dramatically and go forward. Admittedly, I was a little skeptical, especially when we got friends from our division headquarter that came with them to go along and make this change. But I got to. It was an easy transition for me after that first event and what I observed, I was hooked and there wasn't enough information. I could get my hands on, but it was an assembly rapid improvement event. We were trained by Moffitt associates and bill Moffitt. He was my first teacher in lean. And I found him to be both challenging and entertaining to say the least as it went through from a sensei standpoint. And he was very helpful in my lean journey. And I really try to model some of my behaviors as well as some of the things that I say after bill today. There's there's a lot we could sort of dig into there from what you said. I'd be curious to hear more of your, your thought process of having a couple of years of experience in a traditional system, leading to some skepticism, like for better or for worse, in some ways it was a challenge for me. I was exposed like very much at the beginning of my career. That lean was the right idea. That doesn't mean that the organization I worked in practiced it, but I was already buying. Toward lien. Can, can you share a little bit more about that thought process of where you were starting to get biased toward the quote unquote the way it's always been done? I think that's pretty, there's a great question. As I learned a little bit on my lean journey. And then I harken back to the first few years. I'm like, oh my gosh, what could have been possible? So I'll just tell you a story. The first job I had coming out of college as a mechanical engineer, I went to a wiper blade manufacturer in Indiana, and we started out and you get a, I mean again, when you start to think about this from a lean standpoint it's absolutely excruciating, but they had the traditional lineup of punch press departments and a cleaning line, and then a sub assembly line and then assembly and packaging. And every time you got one of those steps done, you went and put it back in the warehouse and countered it to make sure you had good control of what parts were there to think about. And my one of my second jobs was to be the scheduling. For the paint line. Now you got to really have fun and start to laugh about this because what I had to do was go to the paint line supervisor and say, okay, here's the stuff that's available to paint today in front of your line. Let's count it. Go ahead and paint it. And then we'll put it in the warehouse. And that was about 15. Uh, day of real work. And then I'm like, is this really what it's supposed to be? So, but again, I guess that influenced that first, that first job out, that first opportunity out, not knowing a whole lot of difference in going through. I just felt, it was like the way that everybody did it. And so that's how I get wired over the first few years, and then when I saw the opportunity to say, why do we do all these things? Why do we make all these towns? Why do we stop and wait and put things into these parts hotels as my teacher, bill mafia used to call them and just leave it out there and get it done. It was just more than anything else on the process mapping side of it was to understand the amount of time these parts spent waiting for something to actually happen to them when it really didn't have to happen. It just, it, it. So I'm so well, and so logical. And then as they wired me over 25 years, it wasn't just about work anymore. It was about, it really became a way of life as well. And you saw things, whether it's restaurants or service industry, or whatever, that was, that had an influence on me, but it was something that stuck more than anything else. And I was glad I got introduced to it when I did back in 1997, early enough, it seems. And it, and it know one thing I think I've, I hope I've gotten better. At this over time is having empathy for people whose time in the old system isn't measured in years, but in decades, like that's great. That leads to great. Yeah. Individuals that have been in that system like that for so long. Yeah. Again, I had one or two years in that system. I know there are people in those organizations that have been in that for twenty-five or 30 years. I mean, it's just crazy how that happened now. Again, your point about empathy, I use the term oftentimes, especially when I'm consulting now is, you know, meeting them where they are. And as we see different organizations go through different transformations as sensei, we have to be very aware. Of where those individuals and where those organizations are on their journey. They're not going to be the same place that an organization that's been on. The lean transformation journey for five or even 10 years is when they first get started. So having the empathy and trying to meet them and share your stories, that's a big part of what happens. Let me share stories with you about how others changed as you go with. The first Kaizen event, the first sensei you're talking about bill Moffitt, light, you know, how much detail can you share? What do you recall about that first event? It sounds like, you know, there was an element of we're from headquarters. We're here to help. That's always well received, but w w how much do you remember about that first event and the dynamics there? Yeah, I love some of the bill Moffitt isms, and one of the things he said to us at the end of the day on the, on either the second day or the third day from a report out standpoint, as he was meeting with. And I still use this today with clients and those listening who have met me before, probably heard me say this, but he says, I'm not here to comfort the afflicted. I'm here to afflict the comforted. And what it really was about was the standpoint of saying, look, you've done things a certain way for so long and you. Cool air quotes successful at what you've done in that space. You've been profitable, but it's really not about what you've made is about what you've left on the table. And what he really talked about was, you all are too comfortable in your ways, and it's not my job as a consultant to be quote Minnesota. Nice to you and tell you what's going on. I'm going to tell you. Where, where the things need to change. I'm going to push you to a space. You wouldn't go. And I need, you know, at times, you know, that while he was trained by the Japanese, so he didn't have the same rough abrasive approach as the traditional Japanese, Japanese. And if he said, you know, single Jitsu or whoever was teaching there and how they would use a really. Let's say brash approach with leadership. He would do that if he had to, but it wasn't like him. And that's what I appreciated about some of those changes, but for some of his approaches in terms of being a good teacher, but he was there again. So probably push us to a place we would not have gone on our own. And that's what I, I know that to be true for sure. And as experiences, I mean, the first book that I read on lean was lean. Thank you. While written by Jim Womack and, and understood. And the great story about Wiremold bill had worked at Wiremold. He had trained in Japanese. So his name was all through that book is in Bob Petland. And then there are about four other consultants that made up Moffitt associates at the time. And so it seems like that combination of meeting people where they are, but pushing them is key, like meeting where they are doesn't mean let them stay where they are, that they're there. There's an art. And I'm curious, like, with some of your reflections of times when, you know, you're trying to figure out how hard. Should I push, how hard can I push you? Want to move them forward without people. Without them disengaging altogether. Like where, where do you find, how do you find? Well, that's a great question. And not one. I mean, if, if every consultant could figure that out, they'd have, they'd definitely have more success inside of that space. And so, you know, much like even being a team leader as an employee, as a consultant, you've got to go in Kim Cheney and other ism. Kim Chaney was another consultant. They work with me at simpler and he was a good friend and he worked with me in the manufacturing world is. As the VP of manufacturing, but he would talk about real early on. You got to know your chickens and those chickens will be the ones that without being rude in terms of understanding was that know which team members you were really able to have an influence with, find out which ones were the influencers. Cause you didn't have to tell the whole team to make a change, but you had to find the one or two on the team that were willing to take a risk and then let the other. Follow them. It wasn't always comfortable. It wasn't always easy, but it was a matter of finding the right people that would, that would trigger that change. And you didn't want to do that in finding the, the bosses that were on the teams, but it was the one where the influencers in the shop who could really help you as a consultant be successful and make that work. We used to talk about a simpler, the three RS that really determined our success, reputation, relationships, and results. And if we weren't building relationships with those clients, it wasn't just about beating them over the head with the Toyota production system or the simpler business system. But it was to tell them we were going with them on that journey and that we were going to we're going to help them. And it was a team effort. So I wanted to. Yeah. Hear about, you look at some of the career steps that you've, you know, they're shown in your bio, you talked about being a second shift supervisor and then becoming an operations manager and then being a division president. I mean, what are some of the different things you learned? From those roles, it sounds like as a division president, then you have broader business responsibility, P and L responsibility beyond operations. Can you tell us about some of that progression? Sure. I mean, coming right out of college, I was, I was fortunate enough to work for an organization Cooper industry at the time, going through a manufacturing training program with them that gave me. The experience, if you will, in four different facets of manufacturing and the two different locations. So we knew that coming out that we were going to be at least two different locations and probably three, as we came forward, we were going to do assignments and. Quality assurance. We are going to do an assignment and materials. We are going to do assignment in manufacturing, engineering, and then an assignment in production supervision. And they didn't have to all happen in that exact order. But those experiences that well-rounded component of it was pretty. Valuable as I went through that as an organization, as a result of, really those four, and I didn't have any lien experience going through that, but you know, the, the learning to lead people, especially on a second shift when there's nobody else in leadership there. Go to with questions and things like that. I was the only supervisor on second shift in the facility we had in Chicago was great experience, especially from a leadership development standpoint and understanding that it wasn't just about being an engineer that made me smart. It was about leadership and working with others that helped to carry that forward. I got to say that the, the evolution of. The roles, whether they went from a facility engineer to facility manager, or site manager to VP of operations and manufacturing, and subsequently that division president in Fort Wayne, Indiana was more about the ability to get things done through other. To understand that you had to put a great team in place and develop the team that that needed to be there. You had to have a structure to go through it as well. I mean, in, in the end of the time I had in Roanoke, Virginia with Cooper industries or Eaton, it really was about us being early on the journey and implementing lean. And by, by doing that, and by having some success, I was able to in essence, get recruited to the next opportunity. But I think more than anything else, it's about the leadership characteristics of integrity and, and valuing other people. And, the consistency of approach that worked and got, got me those opportunities. When I left the division president role in 2006, it was at my choice. I made the choice to move back to Roanoke, Virginia for family purposes, and actually got started in real estate and decided to take some of the lean learnings that I had in manufacturing and see if I could handle that and real estate sales, residential real estate sales, my teamed up with my mother-in-law to form a real estate team. And within 18 months we were the number one performing team and in the Roanoke valley, which was good. And it was about setting up standard work for how to handle listings and about setting up standard work for handling, closing. And still focusing on that relationship side of what was happening there. I rode the real estate market all the way to the bottom in 2008, 2009. And it got to where that business wasn't a whole lot of fun anymore as I went through that. And so I was assessing whether or not I wanted to get back into manufacturing and operations, and I got a call from. Coworkers who said, Hey, once you go work for this simpler consulting company, do lean consulting. I said, look, I got, I got no desire to be a consultant. I really don't. I don't, I don't have any interest in that travel life that that needs to be done. And this is not something they call me back two times. And the third time they called me back and said, look, we know you said, don't do that, but what if you did it in healthcare, the lean in healthcare. And I hadn't really heard of that or associated that before I said that. Kind of interesting and, and another good experience. And as I wrote a note to myself, I said, maybe I'm naive enough to believe that I could actually make a difference inside of that space and working with some of the individuals in that area. So I said, okay, I'll try that for a couple of years and then get back into operations. At some other point, it was a good, good experience I thought to get in. And that was 11 years ago. And I've been doing it kind of ever since if you will, inside of healthcare aid, the time goes by so fast. But secondly is I really found that I. Interested in it, especially on the healthcare side. And I found to be pretty good at it in terms of the relationships that I build, especially with the C-suite and some of the leaders in these organizations and help them to make a difference. So I've hung around in it. It's just something that's worked out pretty well. I'm curious to hear what was the inspiration for starting the podcast and why a podcast with this really interesting theme? Sure. Thanks for that question. I think is something that's been brewing for a long time in me. I mean, I've thought of for a long time about really the opportunity of. Running my own business, both coaching and consulting in a little different way, especially from a leadership development standpoint, which is something I've had a passion for really, since my first mentor introduced the first leadership book to me, the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership by John Maxwell back in 1998. And I much like in 1997, when I became hooked on lean that book and that leader hooked me on leadership development as well, and the important side of leadership development. And so, you know, the definition, the uncommon leader really got started with, a good leader can help an organization to, to grow a good coach, can help a team to win a few games, but a great leader. Or an uncommon leader, an uncommon coach is one that not only helps them to win, but also makes a difference in their life as well. So it's success in both work and in life from a vocation standpoint, that the word uncommon really came from a daily devotional book that I read Tony Dungy. And he wrote the, uncommon life daily devotion. I was, I look at the book. This is the football coach, Tony, Tony Dungy. Read it on a daily basis still. Absolutely. In terms of the uncommon life, uncommon life. And that's the daily, that's a daily reading from Tony. And he talked about, he had a football coach in his life that really, you know, defined uncommon as doing the, an ordinary thing in an uncommon way, such that, again, that the results were everlasting, that they were legacy type and so the uncommon leader podcast was really born out of who are the leaders that I know that are uncommon, that have taken really what their skills are. In terms of business or in terms of ministry or in terms of sports or whatever that is, and really done things in an uncommon way, gotten uncommon results with what they've done, and one of the things we've talked about is that their, you know, their approach is such that they've not had to run over people, but they've influenced people to get things done I mean, mark, you know, this and in your career, as I've, as I've watched your career, your primary role is that of an influence. You're asking people on a regular basis to change in whatever space that is, whether that's through your blogs or your podcasts or your consulting side of the business as well. And they can tell, you know, I mean, cause they, they they're still, they should pay you for it. Absolutely. But they can absolutely ignore you. So you've got to be an influencer in their life. It's making a difference to. I need to listen to this person and really understand what they have to say. So I like to interview leaders on the uncommon leader podcast that. I have made a difference in my life have been ones that I've seen. And, I have this list of kind of those ones that I've come in touch with that I want to talk to inside of that podcast and ones I've never met before, who have still had an influence on my life as well, though, whether it's through their, their writing or their blogging or their work that they've done as well in terms of influence. And that's how, that's, how it was born. So it's been pretty cool so far. I've had a good time with it. Well, good. Who were some of the guests that you've had on I've had a Dr. Paul Deshaun, who was the former CEO of Sutter Gould medical foundation and the author of prevented physician burnout. One of my mentors, Tom Komazi, who is the retired CEO that the Tuthill corporation. Got one coming out tomorrow though by my trainer, Margot Bellenger, who was my fitness trainer for two years and helped me on my personal fitness and health transformation from 260 pounds down to 185 pounds that I've been at now for a couple of years and made a huge difference in my life from that standpoint I've had my pastor who has been my spiritual mentor, as well as I've gone through the journey and how he has influenced me and I've had other executive coaches like yourself. I've had coach bill Hart from the coaching company that I receive coaching from for about seven years on executive coaching side. So some really some really interesting folks that have, that have been on and looking forward to pull and meet more people into that conversation as well. And then what are some things that I could learn from. Because I think, well, he was certainly having to meet me where I was, but he also pushed things you said earlier. I think about that. And it's a story that goes back. I was having a meeting with several of the simpler internal sensei. We were in there's about six of us, six or seven of us in a room. And one of the guys asked me, he said, you know, John, you you've been working with a trainer and things are going pretty good. Are you going to keep working with the trainer? And I, I said his name. I said, look, we are consultants in the continuous improvement space. Don't we continue to encourage our clients to stay with us on a continuous improvement journey as well. So the parallels are amazing in terms of the business model that is growing champions. It's really about the whole person approach to transformation on the coaching side, success coaching. If we want to go at that and I refer to it as the seven F's and just one of them. My fruits that I talk about, and there's a story within that is your career, but the other side of finances and faith and fitness, fun friendships, you know, those are ones that you need coaches on as well, whether they're paid coaches or whether they're mentors in some way, shape or form, you better find one in each area. If you want to get better in each area of your life. And it does take that coach again, back to that definition of an uncommon coach. There's one who will take you to a place you never would've gone on your own. And you, you see that. I mean, you may not, if you have not been working with that trainer in San Antonio, much like me working with Margo in Roanoke, Virginia, I still stay in touch with her, although I don't live in Roanoke anymore. Over the past 18. No, I can still hear her in some of my personal workouts in my ear, pushing me just one, one more time. And some of those, you have to listen to that podcast. If you get a chance, mark, and really talk about how she used to torture me pretty well. That's for sure. But, but for a purpose, kind of like your sensei or some of the the other folks that. He talked about that traditional style. Just go back for a minute. You know, there's this term that would be applied to some of these Japanese sensei or they would even apply it to themselves. Insultant as opposed to absolutely consultants. But, you know, I think of, of Lenny pushing me, there was this balance where. I mean, he couldn't make it a competition of like, you know, cause he would work out with me. So he's not just telling me what to do. He's working out, he's demonstrating what good looked like both in terms of form. And like, I don't think I will ever. Be as fit as Lenny, but it wasn't a point of like him shaming me or making me feel bad, or look like, look, look what I can do. Why don't you do that? That's the other side. That's right. It wasn't, it wasn't an ego wasn't coming from ego. There was definitely a purpose inside of that. That again, those individuals know, and that's the uncommon side that those individuals, when you work with someone like that, you know, they have your best. At heart. And it's not just about them. It's about you more than it is about them. Well, I think that's the difference in doing and being right, regardless of where you are in your improvement journey, whether it's a lean transformation, whether it's a personal health transformation or whether it's again, in a different area of your life. There's there's doing there's checking boxes. There's you know, saying I did those things, but then there's being, it becomes part of who you are. And so you become, and you, you talked about it a little bit, like you say things to yourself. Like I am a healthy person. I am a fit person. That's a different mindset than saying, I don't know if I can be a healthy person. I don't know if I have what it takes. To be a fit person and go forward with that. So your recognition of that mindset is really big. I could be like Lenny, but I choose to be who I want to be, who I need to be to be healthy. Adam nine. I know, you know, Adam as well. I don't know if you've interviewed him before on your podcast. He's a, he's a good friend. He was a big influence on me on the fitness side and in the lean space with his innovative innovation expertise. But, you know, he used to be one to say, look, just, just start with something small. And, you know, we ended up, he and I ended up using the hashtag, even in teaching called stop eating French fries. Like what's the, what's one thing that's getting in your way now that you can stop small rather than trying to go all in too fast. Cause you go too fast and it. At, at best, it becomes difficult to make that a lifestyle change and become who you are. Okay. John's company is growing champion. LLC. Who, who, what's the profile of the individuals or organizations that you work with now in that executive coaching and mentoring? Sure. Well, I mean, th the individual leader that I'm targeting, you know, it's interesting, kind of told the story of, of me coming up, where they went. Industrial engineer to facility manager, facility manager, to VP of manufacturing and the, the ideal client for me, whether it's industry agnostic in terms of how I go through that. But is that person looking to make that jump to the next level, if you will, whether they're going from engineer to manager, from manager to executive, you know, frankly from executive to. Considering retirement and understanding what that means for them in the future as well. It becomes an ideal individual client for me on a one-on-one success coaching level. Here's a whole person approach that I work with What do you think? I hope you enjoyed that. I want to thank mark Raven for interviewing me on his podcast and allowing me to share some of my story with him. I encourage you to go and listen to the whole episode again@markgribbindotcomoryoucanfindhispodcastatleanblog.org. If you enjoyed this episode, there are many things you can do to spread the learning. You can share it with a friend which would be pretty valuable. You can hit the subscribe button on apple podcast or follow on Spotify, or subtribe on whatever the podcast platform is that you use. You can go get the older episodes@growingchampions.net backslash podcast, to hear from other uncommon leaders where you can drop me a note@johnatgrowingchampions.net. And let me know if there's any other topics you'd like me to cover, or if there's someone that you know that you think should be on the uncommon leader podcast. I love hearing from our guests until next time, go and grow champions.